World Beyblade Organization by Fighting Spirits Inc.

Full Version: 20 of the worst parts to use EVER
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To my surprise, the new slingshock beys are really good... Not to mention that all the Phoenixes... Phenioxes... Phini? use one of the most complex abilities in all of beyblade... though, there are other parts that many wish were not made... I strongly suggest that you shouldn't use these tips if you don't have a strong launch/launcher: (To not make anyone mad at me for sinning a part they might like, i'll try to see a good side to these parts... anyway, onto the list)

1. 2. and 3, Extreme, Jolt and Hunter-S: These tips are made of rubber, allowing them to have an unpredictable speed and trajectory... though, if you do consider the fact that this can be a great tactic for an attack bey, just keep in mind that these tips just aren't all-that in stamina. The least that can happen is that once you attack a few times, your opponent could have a spin finish due to the fact that their stamina is far better than these tips. Extreme just doesn't have stamina, Jolt is too fast and could cause a self-ring-out and Hunter-S seems to be both of these combined... Hunter is a great tip because It can maintain balance and speed control... it's also released on heavy parts such as Boom Khalzar and Krusher Doomsisor.

4, 5 and 6. All the parts on Jormuntor, which are J2, Infinity, Cycle: I cannot argue why these parts can be used in a god way, to be honest... J2 MAY be better with a defense driver instead of stamina or attack... but still, it's difficult to make this top good for stamina or offence. To be honest, Infinity can be used in some pretty neat ways: It is light weight, it doesn't slow your bey down because of wight and it's released only on Jormuntor and Zeutron... Though, if not used on the right bey, it can decrease offence and defense... I literally cannot see something good in cycle other that it was cool in the anime, but not in real life. To be fair, Jormuntor is a neat bey in the beyblade burst apps and the anime, but still.. not even close in real life.

7. Edge: I DID say Edge was a good driver for some beys. If I'm not mistaken, Edge is the sharpest bey that can not only keep its shape, but can also offer a lot of stamina... the only problem is that it has horrible offence. I admit, it does take a little amount of attacks to knock a bey with this tip down, but it can be perfected with defense tops, both the Fafnirs, Nemesis and hyper horusood H2 (No, not because leftburst made a video depicting that it has 'physic powers' but because it is light weight and it can be used as a defense type)

8, 9, 10, 11, 13 and 14, Acell, Acell-S, Survive, Survive-S, Friction and Friction-S: At first, I couldn't tell these tips apart, but i realized that they all have bad stamina and attack... I guess they have good attack? But not really.

#15, #16, #17 and #18. 12, 13, 10 and 1': 12 is both heavy and light-weight at the same time... This metal is a little too thick to use on non-slingshock beys, but the fact that it is used of so many beys scares me. 13 is O.K so long as it's also not used on any bey that is nit a slingshock; It's very light and very thick... though it does look cool and looks like is should be a layer instead to a metal Grin . 10 is very easy to burst on Fafnir... but on the Phoenixes... Phoenixes... Phini? i guess... the fact that this has 10 blades on it is irrelevant, but it kind of looks like a thinner version of 0 and 0'. 1' is terribly light, yet it is only made with one bey, being Buster Xcaliber (Or as I like to call him Burster Xcalius) Sadly, though, this broke him against a battle with surge xcalius then broke again against Galaxy Zeutron when he still had the metak balls... #Let_It_R.I.P

19. Extend: Originally going to be Ifritor, this tip is terrible at stamina and speed. I guess it;s good at defense and its offence is great, but not off the charts... Ifritor is actually good because it looks a lot like and defeat Heat Salamander.... I also think it would be funny if Suoh's former bey was Ifritor in the anime *ehem* back to the subject...

HM (Honerable mention): Blow: Blow, I Guess, is ok at attack ... but still, the stamina on this thing is ridiculously infuriating. A way to make this part good is to put this on a counterclockwise spinning part... other than Balkesh... Balkesh is not good with attack drivers...

20. Caynox single layer: I love Caynox... his spring loaded layer can deflect or cancel attacks... also, it was released with Bearing and Flow, which are off the charts exellent with stamina... his single layer on the other hand bursts terribly easy... Though, it is fun to use against other single layers like Doomsisor and Roktavor, Caynox isn't all that with its single layer. I did manage to make a mod to both put springs on him and to make him unburstable using a metal masters metal... but this was a mod, so it cannot be used on official tornements... I really enjoy using metal fusion parts to make a single layer ubburstable... but still... kind bad to use overall...
You can't say worst parts ever. Every part is good, but you need combine these correctly. We don't need this thread.
This is 99.999% false
(Mar. 16, 2019  7:08 PM)CheetoBlader Wrote: [ -> ]This is 99.999% false

I agree with this.
The rubber drivers are arguably the best, 12 is the lightest core disk and 1 dash is pretty darn heavy, and edge will never be good due to being unbalanced and generally bland. Accel was at own point top tier and served as an alternative with better stamina to xtreme. You do not have testing to back this up and the explanation does not make much sense. This information is highly debatable and misleading.
Most of these parts are good, and you argue that the parts that aren’t good are decent and don’t belong on this list that much.



Also, most of the parts you’ve mentioned don’t exist
You might want to add "in my opinion" as to avoid backlash and criticism.
Here we go again.

(Mar. 16, 2019  5:56 PM)Grimlock_Ollie Wrote: [ -> ]1. 2. and 3, Extreme, Jolt and Hunter-S: These tips are made of rubber, allowing them to have an unpredictable speed and trajectory... though, if you do consider the fact that this can be a great tactic for an attack bey, just keep in mind that these tips just aren't all-that in stamina. The least that can happen is that once you attack a few times, your opponent could have a spin finish due to the fact that their stamina is far better than these tips. Extreme just doesn't have stamina, Jolt is too fast and could cause a self-ring-out and Hunter-S seems to be both of these combined... Hunter is a great tip because It can maintain balance and speed control... it's also released on heavy parts such as Boom Khalzar and Krusher Doomsisor.
Xtreme is top-tier for Attack, and is only bad if your launching skill is low and you haven't learned the Sliding Shoot yet (a launch invented in the OG plastic generation that still works with aggressive tips today). All-out Attack types don't care at all about Stamina, so "having no Stamina" isn't a drawback for them if they can maximize Attack power, and that's where rubber tips like Xtreme, Hunter, and Jolt exceed all else.

Hunter-S is correct though. I don't know what it's tip is made out of, but it's not the typical rubber they use on everything else and it sucks terribly because of it. It has no grip or power behind it, can't maintain an offensive flower pattern well, and has the same terrible Stamina as other rubber flats tips do without any of the aggressive power of them.

(Mar. 16, 2019  5:56 PM)Grimlock_Ollie Wrote: [ -> ]4, 5 and 6. All the parts on Jormuntor, which are J2, Infinity, Cycle: I cannot argue why these parts can be used in a god way, to be honest... J2 MAY be better with a defense driver instead of stamina or attack... but still, it's difficult to make this top good for stamina or offence. To be honest, Infinity can be used in some pretty neat ways: It is light weight, it doesn't slow your bey down because of wight and it's released only on Jormuntor and Zeutron... Though, if not used on the right bey, it can decrease offence and defense... I literally cannot see something good in cycle other that it was cool in the anime, but not in real life. To be fair, Jormuntor is a neat bey in the beyblade burst apps and the anime, but still.. not even close in real life.
Cycle is pretty bad, so you're right there. Its free-spinning thing gets in its own way pretty badly and loses Stamina as it drags along the ground. Infinity would be pretty good, except it has a hefty burst risk. That burst risk is crippling and makes it unusable.

Jail Jormungand, the TT release, is also really weak due to bursting. Hasbro's Jormuntor J2 on the other hand, has incredibly strong slopes that have made it one of Hasbro's strongest layers in the Basic/Dual layer system due to its impressive Stamina and Defense. It's even gotten banned in the Burst Classic format because it's just overpoweringly strong and applies to Silver-X Jormuntor as well.

(Mar. 16, 2019  5:56 PM)Grimlock_Ollie Wrote: [ -> ]7. Edge: I DID say Edge was a good driver for some beys. If I'm not mistaken, Edge is the sharpest bey that can not only keep its shape, but can also offer a lot of stamina... the only problem is that it has horrible offence. I admit, it does take a little amount of attacks to knock a bey with this tip down, but it can be perfected with defense tops, both the Fafnirs, Nemesis and hyper horusood H2 (No, not because leftburst made a video depicting that it has 'physic powers' but because it is light weight and it can be used as a defense type)
Edge isn't bad because it has no offensive power. Stamina types don't care at all about that, just like how Attack tips don't care about Stamina power. It's bad because it can be knocked over so easily and falls over at lower spin velocities than anything else. You're very much right, but for the wrong reason.

(Mar. 16, 2019  5:56 PM)Grimlock_Ollie Wrote: [ -> ]8, 9, 10, 11, 13 and 14, Acell, Acell-S, Survive, Survive-S, Friction and Friction-S: At first, I couldn't tell these tips apart, but i realized that they all have bad stamina and attack... I guess they have good attack? But not really.
I'm presuming from the context of early drivers and their Slingshock counterparts that you meant Fusion, and Fusion-S, not Friction and Friction-S. It's very true for both of those if so, since Fusion was never really useful as a jack-of-all-trades that was never really excellent for Attack, Stamina, or any sort of hybrid Balance type between the two and its Slingshock version doesn't change that at all.

Survive-S is pretty mediocre due to its tall height, but Survive was pretty good in Hasbro's lineup for one big reason: it has a stronger spring than Revolve, which outclassed the TT version of Survive outright. Hasbro's Survive became the go-to Stamina driver until Orbit and Atomic came out, so it's actually a pretty good part in Hasbro's lineup.

Accel and Accel-S are unimpressive in Hasbro's lineup since they don't move enough to work, but TT's version of Accel was often interchangeable with Zephyr (if slightly inferior due to a slight decrease in Stamina) and used in Mobile Defense and Mobile Stamina combos that intended to stall out Attack types by riding the tornado ridge until the Attack type ran out of spin. Also related is Accel', which could also be used instead of Zephyr' for some of the oddball Stamina-oriented Attack combos you might see used by Dead Hades and Crash Ragnaruk to try and counter the Phoenixes.

Also, you skipped part 12.

(Mar. 16, 2019  5:56 PM)Grimlock_Ollie Wrote: [ -> ]#15, #16, #17 and #18. 12, 13, 10 and 1': 12 is both heavy and light-weight at the same time... This metal is a little too thick to use on non-slingshock beys, but the fact that it is used of so many beys scares me. 13 is O.K so long as it's also not used on any bey that is nit a slingshock; It's very light and very thick... though it does look cool and looks like is should be a layer instead to a metal Grin . 10 is very easy to burst on Fafnir... but on the Phoenixes... Phoenixes... Phini? i guess... the fact that this has 10 blades on it is irrelevant, but it kind of looks like a thinner version of 0 and 0'. 1' is terribly light, yet it is only made with one bey, being Buster Xcaliber (Or as I like to call him Burster Xcalius) Sadly, though, this broke him against a battle with surge xcalius then broke again against Galaxy Zeutron when he still had the metak balls... #Let_It_R.I.P
12 and 13 are both too lightweight to work well, and 11 falls into that same category. These are basically the worst 3 Core disks released.

10 is top-tier with a weight comparable to 0, and is one of the 4 most competitive disks currently out there (those being 7, 0, 10, and 00, with Outer maybe making 5th place). This is ridiculously good, so it has no place on this list at all. There is no 0' as well, so I don't know why you're bringing up parts that don't exist.

1' is pretty good for the same reasons that 1 was good (aiding Sieg Xcaliber in Stationary Attack combos to increase its burst chances), but Buster Xcaliber never worked out and so it never had a chance to shine. It's still an improvement to 1, but just isn't usable without a good lopsided attack layer to pair with it.

(Mar. 16, 2019  5:56 PM)Grimlock_Ollie Wrote: [ -> ]19. Extend: Originally going to be Ifritor, this tip is terrible at stamina and speed. I guess it;s good at defense and its offence is great, but not off the charts... Ifritor is actually good because it looks a lot like and defeat Heat Salamander.... I also think it would be funny if Suoh's former bey was Ifritor in the anime *ehem* back to the subject...
Xtend is sorta underwhelming, essentially just being a better Fusion, but it's also half of Xtend+ which is one of the big dominating Stamina drivers out there. It's not the worst thing in the world, especially when things like Tower exist that do the same thing but even worse.

(Mar. 16, 2019  5:56 PM)Grimlock_Ollie Wrote: [ -> ]HM (Honerable mention): Blow: Blow, I Guess, is ok at attack ... but still, the stamina on this thing is ridiculously infuriating. A way to make this part good is to put this on a counterclockwise spinning part... other than Balkesh... Balkesh is not good with attack drivers...
This is honestly pretty bad, yeah. Minimal attack power, but its lack of movement means you can't use what Stamina it has as effectively as you can with TT's Accel or Zephyr while having less Stamina thna a pure Stamina driver does (on average. Exceptions exist for Edge and the such).

(Mar. 16, 2019  5:56 PM)Grimlock_Ollie Wrote: [ -> ]20. Caynox single layer: I love Caynox... his spring loaded layer can deflect or cancel attacks... also, it was released with Bearing and Flow, which are off the charts exellent with stamina... his single layer on the other hand bursts terribly easy... Though, it is fun to use against other single layers like Doomsisor and Roktavor, Caynox isn't all that with its single layer. I did manage to make a mod to both put springs on him and to make him unburstable using a metal masters metal... but this was a mod, so it cannot be used on official tornements... I really enjoy using metal fusion parts to make a single layer ubburstable... but still... kind bad to use overall...

Despite its severe weaknesses, Chaos does have the strongest Stamina out of all Basic and Dual-Layer releases. It's not great because it's way too risky, but it does at laeast have something that it does really, really well, over everything else of its era even. Man they nerfed this before it was even good.

I'll follow your example and base everything on their overall performance for their system. 1 will be the worst part out of everything. This is my own personal "Worst 20 parts" list.

1: 12 (Downright dangerous and the lightest disk of all time, this thing is powerless to do anything but cause damage)
2: Quest (With no Stamina, a heightened burst risk, and no stability whatsoever, the tradeoff is far more of a hindrance to yourself than the payout of your nearly invulnerable Defense is worth)
3: Dragoon Storm (Easy to burst while having no significant Attack, Defense, or Stamina to it. Can't even steal spin)
4: Volcanic/Volcanic-S/Volcanic' (So much speed you can't ever control it, and with no grip to speak of it can't do much even if it does land a hit)
5: Oval (Lightweight, and nothing released could ever make use of that sort of weight distribution even if it was heavier)
6: Wing (Similar to Oval, but slightly better as its weight distribution isn't so weird)
7: Edge (Although it has a decent amount of spin retention like most Stamina drivers, it has no stability, no way to reliably recover, and falls to the ground sooner than any other driver)
8: Rising Ragnaruk (Sharply aggressive but not built to handle its own recoil, it would catch on everything really badly and burst itself without any real power to it)
9: Needle-S (They botched the design, making it a very weak Attack driver since it can't switch out of its Slingshock mode properly. Completely fails on the offensive.)
10: Impact (Constantly gripping and slipping as it hits rubber and then plastic, this just hinders itself way too much)
11: 11 (Similarly too lightweight as a Core disk, but at least had a decent weight distribution)
12: 13 (Slightly better than 11, but still too lightweight)
13: Duo Apollo (Too rough and jagged for Defense, not enough power for Attack, too little weight compared to other God layers)
14: Sword (Low grip and a textured shape that kills off its own Stamina for no gain. Its own tall height also makes it less stable)
15: Planet (Although heavy and maybe decent for Defense due to that, its metal balls often make it lopsided instead and drag it down, making it unusable)
16: Shining Amaterios (Its own moving pieces slow it down when getting close to an opponent while doing no significant damage, mostly just blunting its attacks)
17: Tower (Scrapes all over the place, and is otherwise not particularly strong as a semi-aggressive driver)
18: Wedge (This was never balanced properly, and so is constantly unstable and easily destabilized)
19: Blow (Doesn't have enough speed to tornado stall like Accel or Zephyr, while in turn not having enough Stamina to outspin anything for Defense or Stamina)
20: Blast Jinnius (Although it has a decent amount of Stamina for a Defense layer, its gimmick only works once and then leaves a rounded bottom that makes it easy to destabilize)

Dishonorable Mentions:

3: Although it weighs a similar amount to Heavy without a frame, its central weight distribution kills off its spin retention, making combos with this slow down and lose power sooner than most alternatives.
Evil-eye: Generally easy to burst with a shape too aggressive for it to handle.
Fusion: A general jack-of-all-trades with no real strengths, which in turn means it's not really usable for much of anything.
Flugel-S: Flugel was unimpressive, but Flugel-S worsens it by making it taller and making its Switchstrike mechanism way too easy to toggle, often making it switch to its aggressive mode mid-battle.
Buster Xcaliber: Although Sieg Xcaliber worked out well, Buster Xcaliber wasn't nearly as aggressively designed and didn't have enough power to work.
Vice Leopard: It has plenty of burst resistance, but it has too little Attack, Defense, and Stamina to make use of any of it.
Z Achilles: Essentially on par with Sieg Xcaliber, but less consistent and immediately had the powerful Winning Valkyrie as competition, it just didn't stand a chance.

Edit: Should've probably added Hunter-S to the list, but I forgot it existed for a moment. It honestly probably belongs up there around 3rd or 4th worst, but it's a lot of work to edit that much of the list to fix.
Generic winging or being informative? To make such bold statements you need to back it up with testing/analysis. Like Crystal Azule said you need to add "In my opinion" for you do no have the data behind it.
@[MagikHorse] - Your list seems pretty legit and it's great that you've elaborated in why the parts are in your list.

I'm surprised that you didn't add other really bad parts like Boost, Press, S2, kS, kD, sR etc.
(Mar. 16, 2019  10:48 PM)MagikHorse Wrote: [ -> ]Here we go again.

(Mar. 16, 2019  5:56 PM)Grimlock_Ollie Wrote: [ -> ]1. 2. and 3, Extreme, Jolt and Hunter-S: These tips are made of rubber, allowing them to have an unpredictable speed and trajectory... though, if you do consider the fact that this can be a great tactic for an attack bey, just keep in mind that these tips just aren't all-that in stamina. The least that can happen is that once you attack a few times, your opponent could have a spin finish due to the fact that their stamina is far better than these tips. Extreme just doesn't have stamina, Jolt is too fast and could cause a self-ring-out and Hunter-S seems to be both of these combined... Hunter is a great tip because It can maintain balance and speed control... it's also released on heavy parts such as Boom Khalzar and Krusher Doomsisor.
Xtreme is top-tier for Attack, and is only bad if your launching skill is low and you haven't learned the Sliding Shoot yet (a launch invented in the OG plastic generation that still works with aggressive tips today). All-out Attack types don't care at all about Stamina, so "having no Stamina" isn't a drawback for them if they can maximize Attack power, and that's where rubber tips like Xtreme, Hunter, and Jolt exceed all else.

Hunter-S is correct though. I don't know what it's tip is made out of, but it's not the typical rubber they use on everything else and it sucks terribly because of it. It has no grip or power behind it, can't maintain an offensive flower pattern well, and has the same terrible Stamina as other rubber flats tips do without any of the aggressive power of them.

(Mar. 16, 2019  5:56 PM)Grimlock_Ollie Wrote: [ -> ]4, 5 and 6. All the parts on Jormuntor, which are J2, Infinity, Cycle: I cannot argue why these parts can be used in a god way, to be honest... J2 MAY be better with a defense driver instead of stamina or attack... but still, it's difficult to make this top good for stamina or offence. To be honest, Infinity can be used in some pretty neat ways: It is light weight, it doesn't slow your bey down because of wight and it's released only on Jormuntor and Zeutron... Though, if not used on the right bey, it can decrease offence and defense... I literally cannot see something good in cycle other that it was cool in the anime, but not in real life. To be fair, Jormuntor is a neat bey in the beyblade burst apps and the anime, but still.. not even close in real life.
Cycle is pretty bad, so you're right there. Its free-spinning thing gets in its own way pretty badly and loses Stamina as it drags along the ground. Infinity would be pretty good, except it has a hefty burst risk. That burst risk is crippling and makes it unusable.

Jail Jormungand, the TT release, is also really weak due to bursting. Hasbro's Jormuntor J2 on the other hand, has incredibly strong slopes that have made it one of Hasbro's strongest layers in the Basic/Dual layer system due to its impressive Stamina and Defense. It's even gotten banned in the Burst Classic format because it's just overpoweringly strong and applies to Silver-X Jormuntor as well.

(Mar. 16, 2019  5:56 PM)Grimlock_Ollie Wrote: [ -> ]7. Edge: I DID say Edge was a good driver for some beys. If I'm not mistaken, Edge is the sharpest bey that can not only keep its shape, but can also offer a lot of stamina... the only problem is that it has horrible offence. I admit, it does take a little amount of attacks to knock a bey with this tip down, but it can be perfected with defense tops, both the Fafnirs, Nemesis and hyper horusood H2 (No, not because leftburst made a video depicting that it has 'physic powers' but because it is light weight and it can be used as a defense type)
Edge isn't bad because it has no offensive power. Stamina types don't care at all about that, just like how Attack tips don't care about Stamina power. It's bad because it can be knocked over so easily and falls over at lower spin velocities than anything else. You're very much right, but for the wrong reason.

(Mar. 16, 2019  5:56 PM)Grimlock_Ollie Wrote: [ -> ]8, 9, 10, 11, 13 and 14, Acell, Acell-S, Survive, Survive-S, Friction and Friction-S: At first, I couldn't tell these tips apart, but i realized that they all have bad stamina and attack... I guess they have good attack? But not really.
I'm presuming from the context of early drivers and their Slingshock counterparts that you meant Fusion, and Fusion-S, not Friction and Friction-S. It's very true for both of those if so, since Fusion was never really useful as a jack-of-all-trades that was never really excellent for Attack, Stamina, or any sort of hybrid Balance type between the two and its Slingshock version doesn't change that at all.

Survive-S is pretty mediocre due to its tall height, but Survive was pretty good in Hasbro's lineup for one big reason: it has a stronger spring than Revolve, which outclassed the TT version of Survive outright. Hasbro's Survive became the go-to Stamina driver until Orbit and Atomic came out, so it's actually a pretty good part in Hasbro's lineup.

Accel and Accel-S are unimpressive in Hasbro's lineup since they don't move enough to work, but TT's version of Accel was often interchangeable with Zephyr (if slightly inferior due to a slight decrease in Stamina) and used in Mobile Defense and Mobile Stamina combos that intended to stall out Attack types by riding the tornado ridge until the Attack type ran out of spin. Also related is Accel', which could also be used instead of Zephyr' for some of the oddball Stamina-oriented Attack combos you might see used by Dead Hades and Crash Ragnaruk to try and counter the Phoenixes.

Also, you skipped part 12.

(Mar. 16, 2019  5:56 PM)Grimlock_Ollie Wrote: [ -> ]#15, #16, #17 and #18. 12, 13, 10 and 1': 12 is both heavy and light-weight at the same time... This metal is a little too thick to use on non-slingshock beys, but the fact that it is used of so many beys scares me. 13 is O.K so long as it's also not used on any bey that is nit a slingshock; It's very light and very thick... though it does look cool and looks like is should be a layer instead to a metal Grin . 10 is very easy to burst on Fafnir... but on the Phoenixes... Phoenixes... Phini? i guess... the fact that this has 10 blades on it is irrelevant, but it kind of looks like a thinner version of 0 and 0'. 1' is terribly light, yet it is only made with one bey, being Buster Xcaliber (Or as I like to call him Burster Xcalius) Sadly, though, this broke him against a battle with surge xcalius then broke again against Galaxy Zeutron when he still had the metak balls... #Let_It_R.I.P
12 and 13 are both too lightweight to work well, and 11 falls into that same category. These are basically the worst 3 Core disks released.

10 is top-tier with a weight comparable to 0, and is one of the 4 most competitive disks currently out there (those being 7, 0, 10, and 00, with Outer maybe making 5th place). This is ridiculously good, so it has no place on this list at all. There is no 0' as well, so I don't know why you're bringing up parts that don't exist.

1' is pretty good for the same reasons that 1 was good (aiding Sieg Xcaliber in Stationary Attack combos to increase its burst chances), but Buster Xcaliber never worked out and so it never had a chance to shine. It's still an improvement to 1, but just isn't usable without a good lopsided attack layer to pair with it.

(Mar. 16, 2019  5:56 PM)Grimlock_Ollie Wrote: [ -> ]19. Extend: Originally going to be Ifritor, this tip is terrible at stamina and speed. I guess it;s good at defense and its offence is great, but not off the charts... Ifritor is actually good because it looks a lot like and defeat Heat Salamander.... I also think it would be funny if Suoh's former bey was Ifritor in the anime *ehem* back to the subject...
Xtend is sorta underwhelming, essentially just being a better Fusion, but it's also half of Xtend+ which is one of the big dominating Stamina drivers out there. It's not the worst thing in the world, especially when things like Tower exist that do the same thing but even worse.

(Mar. 16, 2019  5:56 PM)Grimlock_Ollie Wrote: [ -> ]HM (Honerable mention): Blow: Blow, I Guess, is ok at attack ... but still, the stamina on this thing is ridiculously infuriating. A way to make this part good is to put this on a counterclockwise spinning part... other than Balkesh... Balkesh is not good with attack drivers...
This is honestly pretty bad, yeah. Minimal attack power, but its lack of movement means you can't use what Stamina it has as effectively as you can with TT's Accel or Zephyr while having less Stamina thna a pure Stamina driver does (on average. Exceptions exist for Edge and the such).

(Mar. 16, 2019  5:56 PM)Grimlock_Ollie Wrote: [ -> ]20. Caynox single layer: I love Caynox... his spring loaded layer can deflect or cancel attacks... also, it was released with Bearing and Flow, which are off the charts exellent with stamina... his single layer on the other hand bursts terribly easy... Though, it is fun to use against other single layers like Doomsisor and Roktavor, Caynox isn't all that with its single layer. I did manage to make a mod to both put springs on him and to make him unburstable using a metal masters metal... but this was a mod, so it cannot be used on official tornements... I really enjoy using metal fusion parts to make a single layer ubburstable... but still... kind bad to use overall...

Despite its severe weaknesses, Chaos does have the strongest Stamina out of all Basic and Dual-Layer releases. It's not great because it's way too risky, but it does at laeast have something that it does really, really well, over everything else of its era even. Man they nerfed this before it was even good.

I'll follow your example and base everything on their overall performance for their system. 1 will be the worst part out of everything. This is my own personal "Worst 20 parts" list.

1: 12 (Downright dangerous and the lightest disk of all time, this thing is powerless to do anything but cause damage)
2: Quest (With no Stamina, a heightened burst risk, and no stability whatsoever, the tradeoff is far more of a hindrance to yourself than the payout of your nearly invulnerable Defense is worth)
3: Dragoon Storm (Easy to burst while having no significant Attack, Defense, or Stamina to it. Can't even steal spin)
4: Volcanic/Volcanic-S/Volcanic' (So much speed you can't ever control it, and with no grip to speak of it can't do much even if it does land a hit)
5: Oval (Lightweight, and nothing released could ever make use of that sort of weight distribution even if it was heavier)
6: Wing (Similar to Oval, but slightly better as its weight distribution isn't so weird)
7: Edge (Although it has a decent amount of spin retention like most Stamina drivers, it has no stability, no way to reliably recover, and falls to the ground sooner than any other driver)
8: Rising Ragnaruk (Sharply aggressive but not built to handle its own recoil, it would catch on everything really badly and burst itself without any real power to it)
9: Needle-S (They botched the design, making it a very weak Attack driver since it can't switch out of its Slingshock mode properly. Completely fails on the offensive.)
10: Impact (Constantly gripping and slipping as it hits rubber and then plastic, this just hinders itself way too much)
11: 11 (Similarly too lightweight as a Core disk, but at least had a decent weight distribution)
12: 13 (Slightly better than 11, but still too lightweight)
13: Duo Apollo (Too rough and jagged for Defense, not enough power for Attack, too little weight compared to other God layers)
14: Sword (Low grip and a textured shape that kills off its own Stamina for no gain. Its own tall height also makes it less stable)
15: Planet (Although heavy and maybe decent for Defense due to that, its metal balls often make it lopsided instead and drag it down, making it unusable)
16: Shining Amaterios (Its own moving pieces slow it down when getting close to an opponent while doing no significant damage, mostly just blunting its attacks)
17: Tower (Scrapes all over the place, and is otherwise not particularly strong as a semi-aggressive driver)
18: Wedge (This was never balanced properly, and so is constantly unstable and easily destabilized)
19: Blow (Doesn't have enough speed to tornado stall like Accel or Zephyr, while in turn not having enough Stamina to outspin anything for Defense or Stamina)
20: Blast Jinnius (Although it has a decent amount of Stamina for a Defense layer, its gimmick only works once and then leaves a rounded bottom that makes it easy to destabilize)

Dishonorable Mentions:

3: Although it weighs a similar amount to Heavy without a frame, its central weight distribution kills off its spin retention, making combos with this slow down and lose power sooner than most alternatives.
Evil-eye: Generally easy to burst with a shape too aggressive for it to handle.
Fusion: A general jack-of-all-trades with no real strengths, which in turn means it's not really usable for much of anything.
Flugel-S: Flugel was unimpressive, but Flugel-S worsens it by making it taller and making its Switchstrike mechanism way too easy to toggle, often making it switch to its aggressive mode mid-battle.
Buster Xcaliber: Although Sieg Xcaliber worked out well, Buster Xcaliber wasn't nearly as aggressively designed and didn't have enough power to work.
Vice Leopard: It has plenty of burst resistance, but it has too little Attack, Defense, and Stamina to make use of any of it.
Z Achilles: Essentially on par with Sieg Xcaliber, but less consistent and immediately had the powerful Winning Valkyrie as competition, it just didn't stand a chance.

Edit: Should've probably added Hunter-S to the list, but I forgot it existed for a moment. It honestly probably belongs up there around 3rd or 4th worst, but it's a lot of work to edit that much of the list to fix.

I would just like to take this chance to applaud you for typing that out, and putting actual work and effort into doing so. Most of these are not even opinion-based and backed by actual testing. Really well done. I would also like to add a few more:
Geist Fafnir
Liner
Worn Variable
Zeta?
Zephyr?
Impact
Reboot?
Keep?
(Mar. 17, 2019  1:12 AM)MGoldZeo Wrote: [ -> ]
(Mar. 16, 2019  10:48 PM)MagikHorse Wrote: [ -> ]Here we go again.

Xtreme is top-tier for Attack, and is only bad if your launching skill is low and you haven't learned the Sliding Shoot yet (a launch invented in the OG plastic generation that still works with aggressive tips today). All-out Attack types don't care at all about Stamina, so "having no Stamina" isn't a drawback for them if they can maximize Attack power, and that's where rubber tips like Xtreme, Hunter, and Jolt exceed all else.

Hunter-S is correct though. I don't know what it's tip is made out of, but it's not the typical rubber they use on everything else and it sucks terribly because of it. It has no grip or power behind it, can't maintain an offensive flower pattern well, and has the same terrible Stamina as other rubber flats tips do without any of the aggressive power of them.

Cycle is pretty bad, so you're right there. Its free-spinning thing gets in its own way pretty badly and loses Stamina as it drags along the ground. Infinity would be pretty good, except it has a hefty burst risk. That burst risk is crippling and makes it unusable.

Jail Jormungand, the TT release, is also really weak due to bursting. Hasbro's Jormuntor J2 on the other hand, has incredibly strong slopes that have made it one of Hasbro's strongest layers in the Basic/Dual layer system due to its impressive Stamina and Defense. It's even gotten banned in the Burst Classic format because it's just overpoweringly strong and applies to Silver-X Jormuntor as well.

Edge isn't bad because it has no offensive power. Stamina types don't care at all about that, just like how Attack tips don't care about Stamina power. It's bad because it can be knocked over so easily and falls over at lower spin velocities than anything else. You're very much right, but for the wrong reason.

I'm presuming from the context of early drivers and their Slingshock counterparts that you meant Fusion, and Fusion-S, not Friction and Friction-S. It's very true for both of those if so, since Fusion was never really useful as a jack-of-all-trades that was never really excellent for Attack, Stamina, or any sort of hybrid Balance type between the two and its Slingshock version doesn't change that at all.

Survive-S is pretty mediocre due to its tall height, but Survive was pretty good in Hasbro's lineup for one big reason: it has a stronger spring than Revolve, which outclassed the TT version of Survive outright. Hasbro's Survive became the go-to Stamina driver until Orbit and Atomic came out, so it's actually a pretty good part in Hasbro's lineup.

Accel and Accel-S are unimpressive in Hasbro's lineup since they don't move enough to work, but TT's version of Accel was often interchangeable with Zephyr (if slightly inferior due to a slight decrease in Stamina) and used in Mobile Defense and Mobile Stamina combos that intended to stall out Attack types by riding the tornado ridge until the Attack type ran out of spin. Also related is Accel', which could also be used instead of Zephyr' for some of the oddball Stamina-oriented Attack combos you might see used by Dead Hades and Crash Ragnaruk to try and counter the Phoenixes.

Also, you skipped part 12.

12 and 13 are both too lightweight to work well, and 11 falls into that same category. These are basically the worst 3 Core disks released.

10 is top-tier with a weight comparable to 0, and is one of the 4 most competitive disks currently out there (those being 7, 0, 10, and 00, with Outer maybe making 5th place). This is ridiculously good, so it has no place on this list at all. There is no 0' as well, so I don't know why you're bringing up parts that don't exist.

1' is pretty good for the same reasons that 1 was good (aiding Sieg Xcaliber in Stationary Attack combos to increase its burst chances), but Buster Xcaliber never worked out and so it never had a chance to shine. It's still an improvement to 1, but just isn't usable without a good lopsided attack layer to pair with it.

Xtend is sorta underwhelming, essentially just being a better Fusion, but it's also half of Xtend+ which is one of the big dominating Stamina drivers out there. It's not the worst thing in the world, especially when things like Tower exist that do the same thing but even worse.

This is honestly pretty bad, yeah. Minimal attack power, but its lack of movement means you can't use what Stamina it has as effectively as you can with TT's Accel or Zephyr while having less Stamina thna a pure Stamina driver does (on average. Exceptions exist for Edge and the such).


Despite its severe weaknesses, Chaos does have the strongest Stamina out of all Basic and Dual-Layer releases. It's not great because it's way too risky, but it does at laeast have something that it does really, really well, over everything else of its era even. Man they nerfed this before it was even good.

I'll follow your example and base everything on their overall performance for their system. 1 will be the worst part out of everything. This is my own personal "Worst 20 parts" list.

1: 12 (Downright dangerous and the lightest disk of all time, this thing is powerless to do anything but cause damage)
2: Quest (With no Stamina, a heightened burst risk, and no stability whatsoever, the tradeoff is far more of a hindrance to yourself than the payout of your nearly invulnerable Defense is worth)
3: Dragoon Storm (Easy to burst while having no significant Attack, Defense, or Stamina to it. Can't even steal spin)
4: Volcanic/Volcanic-S/Volcanic' (So much speed you can't ever control it, and with no grip to speak of it can't do much even if it does land a hit)
5: Oval (Lightweight, and nothing released could ever make use of that sort of weight distribution even if it was heavier)
6: Wing (Similar to Oval, but slightly better as its weight distribution isn't so weird)
7: Edge (Although it has a decent amount of spin retention like most Stamina drivers, it has no stability, no way to reliably recover, and falls to the ground sooner than any other driver)
8: Rising Ragnaruk (Sharply aggressive but not built to handle its own recoil, it would catch on everything really badly and burst itself without any real power to it)
9: Needle-S (They botched the design, making it a very weak Attack driver since it can't switch out of its Slingshock mode properly. Completely fails on the offensive.)
10: Impact (Constantly gripping and slipping as it hits rubber and then plastic, this just hinders itself way too much)
11: 11 (Similarly too lightweight as a Core disk, but at least had a decent weight distribution)
12: 13 (Slightly better than 11, but still too lightweight)
13: Duo Apollo (Too rough and jagged for Defense, not enough power for Attack, too little weight compared to other God layers)
14: Sword (Low grip and a textured shape that kills off its own Stamina for no gain. Its own tall height also makes it less stable)
15: Planet (Although heavy and maybe decent for Defense due to that, its metal balls often make it lopsided instead and drag it down, making it unusable)
16: Shining Amaterios (Its own moving pieces slow it down when getting close to an opponent while doing no significant damage, mostly just blunting its attacks)
17: Tower (Scrapes all over the place, and is otherwise not particularly strong as a semi-aggressive driver)
18: Wedge (This was never balanced properly, and so is constantly unstable and easily destabilized)
19: Blow (Doesn't have enough speed to tornado stall like Accel or Zephyr, while in turn not having enough Stamina to outspin anything for Defense or Stamina)
20: Blast Jinnius (Although it has a decent amount of Stamina for a Defense layer, its gimmick only works once and then leaves a rounded bottom that makes it easy to destabilize)

Dishonorable Mentions:

3: Although it weighs a similar amount to Heavy without a frame, its central weight distribution kills off its spin retention, making combos with this slow down and lose power sooner than most alternatives.
Evil-eye: Generally easy to burst with a shape too aggressive for it to handle.
Fusion: A general jack-of-all-trades with no real strengths, which in turn means it's not really usable for much of anything.
Flugel-S: Flugel was unimpressive, but Flugel-S worsens it by making it taller and making its Switchstrike mechanism way too easy to toggle, often making it switch to its aggressive mode mid-battle.
Buster Xcaliber: Although Sieg Xcaliber worked out well, Buster Xcaliber wasn't nearly as aggressively designed and didn't have enough power to work.
Vice Leopard: It has plenty of burst resistance, but it has too little Attack, Defense, and Stamina to make use of any of it.
Z Achilles: Essentially on par with Sieg Xcaliber, but less consistent and immediately had the powerful Winning Valkyrie as competition, it just didn't stand a chance.

Edit: Should've probably added Hunter-S to the list, but I forgot it existed for a moment. It honestly probably belongs up there around 3rd or 4th worst, but it's a lot of work to edit that much of the list to fix.

I would just like to take this chance to applaud you for typing that out, and putting actual work and effort into doing so. Most of these are not even opinion-based and backed by actual testing. Really well done. I would also like to add a few more:
Geist Fafnir
Liner
Worn Variable
Zeta?
Zephyr?
Impact
Reboot?
Keep?

Impact is already up there, and is Geist Fafnir bad?
(Mar. 17, 2019  1:12 AM)MGoldZeo Wrote: [ -> ]I would just like to take this chance to applaud you for typing that out, and putting actual work and effort into doing so. Most of these are not even opinion-based and backed by actual testing. Really well done. I would also like to add a few more:
Geist Fafnir
Liner
Worn Variable
Zeta?
Zephyr?
Impact
Reboot?
Keep?

Geist Fafnir does actually work, it's just doesn't work well enough to be competitive (especially with Hell Salamander in play, a very hard counter to it). It really just needed a less aggressive design to avoid the excessive recoil issue it has and a more stamina-oriented weight distribution.
Liner is often considered weak since it falls over so easily late into the match, but it's actually really good at Defense at higher spin speeds and can retake the center of the stadium really quickly. It's actually stronger than Orbit and Atomic for pure KO resistance because of that hasty central return, but its poor balance has prevented it from really dominating.
Variable is kinda off the list, since its strength is entirely based on how it's been worn and therefore can't be judged very objectively. Even then it's a rubber attack driver, which is decent at best on principle, and I heard that it was used a little instead of Xtreme back in the earlier days.
Zeta is stronger than any of its parts, since it always has the flexibility to switch. It doesn't mean much though, although it's still not the worst of the worst.
Zephyr used to be used on old Tornado Stallers and worked well there, and Zephyr' still finds some use with Dead Hades and Crash Ragnaruk. For its time it was good, and still is in its ' form.
Impact is already on my list (spot #10, should really be #11 since Hunter-S should cut in somewhere above it).
Reboot isn't particularly strong, but God Valkyrie had a lot more Stamina that you'd expect and synergized well with it somehow so it's got something to it that works out.
Keep is brand new and I haven't seen it in action enough to know.
@[MagikHorse] Ones that probably deserve a mention, competitive wise for me are (and I'm not including already mentioned ones and these are in no order):

Limited - I really can't see any reason why to use this. It's completely average and pretty light. It's weight distribution is alright, but it's too light to matter.

Massive - It's essentially just an inferior Defense driver with increased chance of bursting. It's stamina is terrible and the defense isn't great overall.

Killer Deathscyther - Super light, super unbalanced, useless gimmick, the shape is too compacted for any attack while too aggressive for stamina.

Tornado Wyvern - While it's gimmick works well and helps with it's Burst resistance, I still find that the recoily shape and weak teeth make this easy to burst, the stamina is also bad here. You'd think the gimmick would actually make this really hard to burst but honestly, it doesn't.

Hazard Kerbeus - Competitively it's probably one of the worst layers in Cho Z. Besides having pretty good balance, it doesn't have good burst resistance thanks to it's dog muzzles and the stamina is nothing to write home about. I don't even think it can be used for attack with a prime driver.
Listing a certain number of useless parts is arbitrary, so this similar topic serves the same purpose: https://worldbeyblade.org/Thread-your-worst-blades-ever