World Beyblade Organization by Fighting Spirits Inc.

Full Version: Layer Weight - 斬 (Zan)
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Quote:==Description==
斬 is a symmetrical Gachi Chip with three hexagons, one in the center and smaller ones on each side. This distribution of metal makes 斬 balanced with the weight concentrated on two points, creating high Outward-Weight-Distribution and subsequent Stamina potential. Furthermore, this weight distribution also increases the movement speed of Mobile Attack combinations, granting 斬 high Attack potential as well.
Is this early? Yes

Will that stop me. [CENSORED] NO

[b]NOTHING IN THIS DRAFT IS CONFIRMED. TAKE IT WITH A GRAIN OF SALT AND A LOT OF SKEPTICISM[/b]
Can this please stop? Can we wait until we get some actual information that’s useful from people actually holding it? I understand what you are trying to do, but please, a least wait until the part is released. For all anyone knows, these “leaks” could be fake or have different information from what is actually released.
(Mar. 14, 2019  3:27 AM)ThaKingTai Wrote: [ -> ]Can this please stop? Can we wait until we get some actual information that’s useful from people actually holding it? I understand what you are trying to do, but please, a least wait until the part is released. For all anyone knows, these “leaks” could be fake or have different information from what is actually released.

Name has been Published In Corocoro, with images
Don't stop for nothin', MD! It's a wiki, it's not a stone tablet, you can just fix the dang thing later! I hunger for data!
(Mar. 13, 2019  8:48 PM)MonoDragon Wrote: [ -> ]
Quote:==Description==
斬 is a symmetrical Gachi Chip with three hexagons, one in the center and smaller ones on each side. This distribution of metal makes 斬 balanced with the weight concentrated on two points, creating high Outward-Weight-Distribution and subsequent Stamina potential. Furthermore, this weight distribution also increases the movement speed of Mobile Attack combinations, granting 斬 high Attack potential as well.
Is this early? Yes

Will that stop me. [CENSORED] NO

Aren’t you the same guy who said Xt+ was gonna suck?
Hey Mono, The Part is Called GT Layer Weight
(Mar. 14, 2019  3:41 AM)instaburst13 Wrote: [ -> ]
(Mar. 13, 2019  8:48 PM)MonoDragon Wrote: [ -> ]Is this early? Yes

Will that stop me. [CENSORED] NO

Aren’t you the same guy who said Xt+ was gonna suck?

I did, and I was proven wrong and I made my draft of that part with the correct information
(Mar. 14, 2019  3:29 AM)Adarsh Abhinav Wrote: [ -> ]
(Mar. 14, 2019  3:27 AM)ThaKingTai Wrote: [ -> ]Can this please stop? Can we wait until we get some actual information that’s useful from people actually holding it? I understand what you are trying to do, but please, a least wait until the part is released. For all anyone knows, these “leaks” could be fake or have different information from what is actually released.

Name has been Published In Corocoro, with images

Listen, that’s fine and all, but what does this do? Absolutely nothing. No one knows how the part performs and making a hypothesis is not good enough for an article. We do not need pages just for the sake of them being there. That’s not the reason for the Wiki. A general and SIMPLE page is fine. Not this.
(Mar. 14, 2019  3:46 AM)ThaKingTai Wrote: [ -> ]
(Mar. 14, 2019  3:29 AM)Adarsh Abhinav Wrote: [ -> ]Name has been Published In Corocoro, with images

Listen, that’s fine and all, but what does this do? Absolutely nothing. No one knows how the part performs and making a hypothesis is not good enough for an article. We do not need pages just for the sake of them being there. That’s not the reason for the Wiki. A general and SIMPLE page is fine. Not this.

You’re right. However, some people would like to know a logic-based guess about how well each part works, and if it’s wrong, we can edit it, but if it’s right, you can just add more detail. This is how things have usually been run, and very few people have had problems until now.
(Mar. 14, 2019  4:17 AM)Dt20000 Wrote: [ -> ]You’re right. However, some people would like to know a logic-based guess about how well each part works, and if it’s wrong, we can edit it, but if it’s right, you can just add more detail. This is how things have usually been run, and very few people have had problems until now.

This is called speculation. Publishing speculation has lots of repercussions.

Can you imagine if reporters publish news purely based on speculation? You give people the wrong impression of things, and kill reliability and trust in the process.

Sure, you can go back and amend whatever you wrote. But can you ensure that the people who absorbed the wrong information be updated with the new one?

The Beyblade wiki is one of the most unreliable wikis amongst all the gaming wikis I frequent. These antics are just exacerbating the situation.
Well, you heard em MD; don't give em anything. They'd rather have no data instead of data that has to be amended.
(Mar. 14, 2019  5:21 AM)DeceasedCrab Wrote: [ -> ]Well, you heard em MD; don't give em anything. They'd rather have no data instead of data that has to be amended.
I’d rather have no data than incorrect data.
(Mar. 14, 2019  3:46 AM)ThaKingTai Wrote: [ -> ]
(Mar. 14, 2019  3:29 AM)Adarsh Abhinav Wrote: [ -> ]Name has been Published In Corocoro, with images

Listen, that’s fine and all, but what does this do? Absolutely nothing. No one knows how the part performs and making a hypothesis is not good enough for an article. We do not need pages just for the sake of them being there. That’s not the reason for the Wiki. A general and SIMPLE page is fine. Not this.

calm down its called a draft for a reason and can be changed later on, mono has even said that its just speculation, just stop he is allowed to do what he wants and its not breaking any rules, most people on here actually like drafts before the release, don't criticise his drafts when you don't make drafts yourself lol
This whole “you don’t do it so you can’t criticize it” argument is dumb. People critique stuff they can’t do or don’t do all the time in hopes of making it better. So I’m going to critique this because I’m tired of seeing this. Don’t make guesses until or unless you know you will have the opportunity to prove it or you have enough data from others to.
It may just be me, but the way these drafts are written make them sound a little like reviews at times. I think with a game, movie, or book review you would expect the reviewer to have played the game, seen the movie, or read the book. There is a disclaimer at the end and I get that. But if it is purely speculative this early then why not include language that would tell the reader that this is speculation throughout the draft?
(Mar. 14, 2019  5:59 AM)ThaKingTai Wrote: [ -> ]This whole “you don’t do it so you can’t criticize it” argument is dumb. People critique stuff they can’t do or don’t do all the time in hopes of making it better. So I’m going to critique this because I’m tired of seeing this. Don’t make guesses until or unless you know you will have the opportunity to prove it or you have enough data from others to.

if you don't like it, don't click on the draft until after its released? i don't see this draft harming anyone, so what's the big problem? we can make educated guesses as a lot of beys have been released beforehand
(Mar. 14, 2019  5:17 AM)KingSpin Wrote: [ -> ]
(Mar. 14, 2019  4:17 AM)Dt20000 Wrote: [ -> ]You’re right. However, some people would like to know a logic-based guess about how well each part works, and if it’s wrong, we can edit it, but if it’s right, you can just add more detail. This is how things have usually been run, and very few people have had problems until now.

This is called speculation. Publishing speculation has lots of repercussions.

Can you imagine if reporters publish news purely based on speculation? You give people the wrong impression of things, and kill reliability and trust in the process.

Sure, you can go back and amend whatever you wrote. But can you ensure that the people who absorbed the wrong information be updated with the new one?

The Beyblade wiki is one of the most unreliable wikis amongst all the gaming wikis I frequent. These antics are just exacerbating the situation.

You’ve missed a few key points while creating this statement. The first thing you missed is the fact that it is stated many times throughout the articles in question that this is speculation and a draft. These drafts are not being published until after reliable information has been gained and when multiple other people have approved that it is correct.

The second thing you missed is that this is the WBO, not the Beyblade Wiki. A few articles and things it say are inaccurate, but people are constantly trying to fix it or warn others. If the WBO is wrong about something, that does not mean that the false information in question will spread to the Beyblade Wiki. A well-trained eye will catch the mistake and fix it. Sure, many mistakes have gone through, but the WBO’s articles are living documents. They are constantly being improved and updated when new information is procured. For example, if the Beyblade Wiki was never updated and very unreliable, it would say Valkyrie was a top tier attack layer that you would need multiple copies for. However, someone updated it when it became outclassed.

You do make a strong point, but is it strong enough?
(Mar. 14, 2019  6:40 AM)Dt20000 Wrote: [ -> ]You’ve missed a few key points while creating this statement. The first thing you missed is the fact that it is stated many times throughout the articles in question that this is speculation and a draft. These drafts are not being published until after reliable information has been gained and when multiple other people have approved that it is correct.

The second thing you missed is that this is the WBO, not the Beyblade Wiki. A few articles and things it say are inaccurate, but people are constantly trying to fix it or warn others. If the WBO is wrong about something, that does not mean that the false information in question will spread to the Beyblade Wiki. A well-trained eye will catch the mistake and fix it. Sure, many mistakes have gone through, but the WBO’s articles are living documents. They are constantly being improved and updated when new information is procured. For example, if the Beyblade Wiki was never updated and very unreliable, it would say Valkyrie was a top tier attack layer that you would need multiple copies for. However, someone updated it when it became outclassed.

You do make a strong point, but is it strong enough?

Good points, let me clarify -

Difference between "Speculation" vs "Draft"
1) Speculation is a strong, precise word with a deep meaning and implications. Speculation is when you claim/say something about a subject matter that you do not have a reasonable grasp of knowledge. A draft does not imply that the contents are speculation, nor does it imply that the contents are verified/trusted. Stating that something is a draft doesn't point to a possibility of speculation - which is what these articles are doing.

Initial Perceptions Skew the Truth
2a) When you make a speculation on the first draft, it skews people's perceptions towards whatever that's written. People will become biased after reading it, making their subsequent comments/posts about it less objective. This ultimately skews the direction of the article away from where it truly should be.

Inertia to Change
2b) It is a lot of extra work and inertia to correct a wrong claim after it is made. A careless claim made on the first draft has a decent chance of making it into the final one. Spewing a lot of wrong claims in the first draft will make a lot of time/posts wasted in correcting it. Why not wait for some people to actually get their hands on it, listen to their thoughts, then make the first draft?

Doesn't Hurt to Wait
It would be much better for these articles as a whole if you took the time to actually review the product yourself, or hear the thoughts of people who actually have it before you make a draft.
If you *really* want the "prestige" of being the person who creates the thread on the product, go ahead. The imaginary internet points are all yours. But there's no need to write an inaccurate draft, for the reasons I mentioned above. Just write something like "To be written". No one will steal your thunder now.

If you guys still want to do this, here's what I think would be a really great compromise for both sides -
Instead of speculating the performance of the parts, why not make the draft based on what's actually being *marketed* by TT? For example, for Power (the new Valkyrie driver), you can write something like "It is advertised to be really good for attack, due to the speed caused by the huge flat tip".
(Mar. 14, 2019  11:28 AM)KingSpin Wrote: [ -> ]
(Mar. 14, 2019  6:40 AM)Dt20000 Wrote: [ -> ]You’ve missed a few key points while creating this statement. The first thing you missed is the fact that it is stated many times throughout the articles in question that this is speculation and a draft. These drafts are not being published until after reliable information has been gained and when multiple other people have approved that it is correct.

The second thing you missed is that this is the WBO, not the Beyblade Wiki. A few articles and things it say are inaccurate, but people are constantly trying to fix it or warn others. If the WBO is wrong about something, that does not mean that the false information in question will spread to the Beyblade Wiki. A well-trained eye will catch the mistake and fix it. Sure, many mistakes have gone through, but the WBO’s articles are living documents. They are constantly being improved and updated when new information is procured. For example, if the Beyblade Wiki was never updated and very unreliable, it would say Valkyrie was a top tier attack layer that you would need multiple copies for. However, someone updated it when it became outclassed.

You do make a strong point, but is it strong enough?

Good points, let me clarify -

Difference between "Speculation" vs "Draft"
1) Speculation is a strong, precise word with a deep meaning and implications. Speculation is when you claim/say something about a subject matter that you do not have a reasonable grasp of knowledge. A draft does not imply that the contents are speculation, nor does it imply that the contents are verified/trusted. Stating that something is a draft doesn't point to a possibility of speculation - which is what these articles are doing.

Initial Perceptions Skew the Truth
2a) When you make a speculation on the first draft, it skews people's perceptions towards whatever that's written. People will become biased after reading it, making their subsequent comments/posts about it less objective. This ultimately skews the direction of the article away from where it truly should be.

Inertia to Change
2b) It is a lot of extra work and inertia to correct a wrong claim after it is made. A careless claim made on the first draft has a decent chance of making it into the final one. Spewing a lot of wrong claims in the first draft will make a lot of time/posts wasted in correcting it. Why not wait for some people to actually get their hands on it, listen to their thoughts, then make the first draft?

Doesn't Hurt to Wait
It would be much better for these articles as a whole if you took the time to actually review the product yourself, or hear the thoughts of people who actually have it before you make a draft.
If you *really* want the "prestige" of being the person who creates the thread on the product, go ahead. The imaginary internet points are all yours. But there's no need to write an inaccurate draft, for the reasons I mentioned above. Just write something like "To be written". No one will steal your thunder now.

If you guys still want to do this, here's what I think would be a really great compromise for both sides -
Instead of speculating the performance of the parts, why not make the draft based on what's actually being *marketed* by TT? For example, for Power (the new Valkyrie driver), you can write something like "It is advertised to be really good for attack, due to the speed caused by the huge flat tip".

Many times on the WBO I have had an argument between somebody else since we have different opinions, and people rarely ever come up with compromises or convince me to believe their opinion, but I agree with you now. I agree with the compromise and think that it is a good idea.
(Mar. 14, 2019  4:24 PM)Dt20000 Wrote: [ -> ]Many times on the WBO I have had an argument between somebody else since we have different opinions, and people rarely ever come up with compromises or convince me to believe their opinion, but I agree with you now. I agree with the compromise and think that it is a good idea.

Great! Hope MonoDragon sees where I'm coming from and agrees Smile
(Mar. 14, 2019  5:31 PM)KingSpin Wrote: [ -> ]
(Mar. 14, 2019  4:24 PM)Dt20000 Wrote: [ -> ]Many times on the WBO I have had an argument between somebody else since we have different opinions, and people rarely ever come up with compromises or convince me to believe their opinion, but I agree with you now. I agree with the compromise and think that it is a good idea.

Great! Hope MonoDragon sees where I'm coming from and agrees Smile

Well aside from the Slash Draft, I feel like I write these early drafts on what is self evident. For this I could cross out the information on OWD but every thing else is self evident (the balance, number of hexagons). Same for my Retsu Draft, it's plain to see that it is unbalanced, I'm just waiting to see if that imbalance is significant enough to effect performance like Quarter (insignificant) vs 1 (significant) before adding that information in (I've already talked about it's intention to improve Attack)
You have no actual idea how the part performs and that’s the problem; you don’t need to jump the gun on the drafts. This is what I’m saying. Just wait. Let’s get some form of information from people playing with it or testing it. JUST WAIT. It’s not that hard, it won’t kill you, you could even right better drafts.
I have an idea! It’s called TAKE IT TO PMS! THIS THREAD IS FOR MAKING A DRAFT FOR THE LAYER WEIGHT ZAN! NOT WHETHER OR NOT WE SHOULD MAKE DRAFTS EARLY!
To step in here, as it's definitely gotten a little heated; articles don't necessarily need written content immediately on announcement. I think there's actually some beauty in having a skeleton article of a brand new announced part, with the images and everything we actually know on it, and letting a reader speculate themselves.

When it comes to writing drafts before a part is released (or writing a draft based on little or no actual performance data), I don't think it should be done really. As said above, if the article has all the information we know so far already, it should speak for itself. And if we want to write something but it's unreleased or we don't have performance data, only the facts should be written.

For example, in the case of Zan here, we absolutely should mention the facts we know (design, weight, where it's released etc), but shouldn't be fleshing it out with an analysis, speculation or the like until a later point. The point of a Wiki is to be presenting facts to the reader after all.

I'd simply recommend going forward that draft threads aren't put up until the first batch of performance data goes up somewhere. Obviously, the Wiki team will still create skeleton articles and populate it with the basics (infobox filled, image, blank headers for each part etc), but adding descriptions for parts or writing the drafts for them probably shouldn't happen until we have actual data to base it on.
Now,back to some thoughts about Zan.