(Oct. 30, 2020 4:40 AM)Dracieleone Wrote: [ -> ] (Oct. 30, 2020 3:58 AM)God Dragruler Wrote: [ -> ]Kyoya only mostly stays close to japan And mainly while ryuga literally travel around the World actually sleeps in the wild constantlty facing dangerous animal everyday trains in VOLCANOS to the point the activated. The only times kyouya was showed to do something like that was back an S1 in the valley but thats still a japan ginkga did his crazy journey back in koma village which is more impressive the other time was when he went to África battle And survive those tornados which is impressive but Again ryuga is legit lives And travel in the wild around the world. Plus after rago beat ryuga kyouya himself stated out of the bladers ryuga has trained the hardest even the character himself said so.
Yeah, but consider consider Kyoya's battle with Damian. Ginga, with Galaxy Pegasis, the implied world's most powerful bey, struggled with defeating Hell Kerbecs, and if the dub is anything to go by, had to also borrow power from Ryuga to do so. Meanwhile, Kyoya, who's been stuck with the same Rock Leone from the first episode, not only tied with Ginga, but absolutely mentally broke Damian. Keep in mind that he did this all without upgrading his bey. In metal Fury, during his battle with Kenta, you can see that Ryuga is slipping in his skills, as if he's just been relying L-Drago's powers to carry him. Additionally, let's not forget that, in the epilogue, it's implied that Kyoya had defeated every single legendary blader, barring Ginga. Considering who he was going up against(including Kenta, who replaced Ryuga as a legendary blader), do you honestly think he hadn't gone through some training to do that?
Kyoya was never implied to have beaten every legendary blader and Ryuga was the one who brought out, and was able to control L-Drago’s powers, something nobody else could do. He always trained his hardest and as I said before, caused the evolutionary transition of Lightning l-drago to Meteo L-Drago which was completely natural- an easy idea just how absurdly powerful Ryuga is, not to mention the fact that he always crushed Kyoya. Kenta gave it his absolute all in that battle with Ryuga and for that brief moment he did indeed have Ryuga on edge but let’s be real, if it was Kyoya that Kenta was battling Kyoya would have gotten obliterated. Also when you take into consideration the fact that Ryuga was able to last as long as he did with Nemesis all on his own (even if he had no chance of winning) whereas Kyoya got tossed around with the rest of the legendary bladers that event alone outweighs anything Kyoya has ever done. Ryuga was pretty much meant to be better than everyone in the first three seasons of the saga storywise, so it only makes sense that he would be better than Kyoya. As for what you said about Pegasus being implied to be the strongest, that simply isn’t true. Yes at one point Gingka did reach the milestone of strongest blader (Zero g) but before that Pegasus and L-Drago were twins by origin and were considered theoretical equals. And all of this is coming from a guy who isn’t particularly crazy about Ryuga all that much so i’m not really being biased here.
you are taking only certain facts while ignoring others to suit you point.
When Ryuga collapsed in the battle with Rago; Kyoya ; Gingka both of them very clearly stated that Ryuga always trained much more than the rest of the legendary bladers could even imagine.
Ryuga himself said that he put his very life on the line to train to be the best
I really do not see where the ambiguity is to be brutally honest
(Oct. 30, 2020 5:15 AM)Vtryuga Wrote: [ -> ] you are taking only certain facts while ignoring others to suit you point.
When Ryuga collapsed in the battle with Rago; Kyoya ; Gingka both of them very clearly stated that Ryuga always trained much more than the rest of the legendary bladers could even imagine.
Ryuga himself said that he put his very life on the line to train to be the best
I really do not see where the ambiguity is to be brutally honest
Was this in the Japanese version?
Well zeutron pretty much give the perfect replied i'll Just add this even if kyouya did beat all the legend at the end of the series its not like ryuga couldnt do the same if he wanted. Anything kyouya can do ryuga can Just do it better, Each time kyouya battles ryuga he either loses or gets schooled of not knowing his own bey (metal Fury) And also loses to gingka yes he fights on par he always ended up Losing each time plus when he fought gingka during metal master gingka hadnt even mastered galaxy yet which he did during the julian match thx to well I forgot about that ryuga who give gingka a hint on galaxy true potential. when you get ryuga vs gingka theirs legit a 50% chance of gingka Losing, while kyouya has 70 % chance of Losing to ginkga
(Oct. 30, 2020 5:23 AM)Dracieleone Wrote: [ -> ] (Oct. 30, 2020 5:00 AM)Zeutron Wrote: [ -> ]Kyoya was never implied to have beaten every legendary blader
https://youtu.be/GcYDiZRpoMg?t=1209
yes he did defeat all the other legendry bladers other than Gingka; but do check episode 45 or 46 of Metal Fury.
(Oct. 30, 2020 5:23 AM)Dracieleone Wrote: [ -> ] (Oct. 30, 2020 5:00 AM)Zeutron Wrote: [ -> ]Kyoya was never implied to have beaten every legendary blader
https://youtu.be/GcYDiZRpoMg?t=1209
Well that’s pretty explainable. One, it’s probably just some sort of dubbing error or two, he probably meant “only one left” as in Gingka being the final frontier of all the bladers he has faced its also possible that he batted them all excluding Ryuga after the nemesis crisis (as Ryuga is still believed to be dead). If Ryuga and Kyoya did have another battle we would have seen it on screen. Just face the facts, Kyoya has never beaten Ryuga LMAO.
(Oct. 30, 2020 5:31 AM)Zeutron Wrote: [ -> ] (Oct. 30, 2020 5:23 AM)Dracieleone Wrote: [ -> ]https://youtu.be/GcYDiZRpoMg?t=1209
Well that’s pretty explainable. One, it’s probably just some sort of dubbing error or two, he probably meant “only one left” as in Gingka being the final frontier of all the bladers he has faced its also possible that he batted them all excluding Ryuga after the nemesis crisis (as Ryuga is still believed to be dead). If Ryuga and Kyoya did have another battle we would have seen it on screen. Just face the facts, Kyoya has never beaten Ryuga LMAO.
Here it is in Japanese.
https://youtu.be/D2CZDuXSOzI?t=567
The argument was never if Kyoya was stronger, but who trained more.
(Oct. 30, 2020 5:27 AM)Vtryuga Wrote: [ -> ] (Oct. 30, 2020 5:23 AM)Dracieleone Wrote: [ -> ]https://youtu.be/GcYDiZRpoMg?t=1209
yes he did defeat all the other legendry bladers other than Gingka; but do check episode 45 or 46 of Metal Fury.
Can you provide a sub for the Japanese versions?
(Oct. 30, 2020 5:41 AM)Dracieleone Wrote: [ -> ] (Oct. 30, 2020 5:31 AM)Zeutron Wrote: [ -> ]Well that’s pretty explainable. One, it’s probably just some sort of dubbing error or two, he probably meant “only one left” as in Gingka being the final frontier of all the bladers he has faced its also possible that he batted them all excluding Ryuga after the nemesis crisis (as Ryuga is still believed to be dead). If Ryuga and Kyoya did have another battle we would have seen it on screen. Just face the facts, Kyoya has never beaten Ryuga LMAO.
Here it is in Japanese.
https://youtu.be/D2CZDuXSOzI?t=567
The argument was never if Kyoya was stronger, but who trained more.
(Oct. 30, 2020 5:27 AM)Vtryuga Wrote: [ -> ]yes he did defeat all the other legendry bladers other than Gingka; but do check episode 45 or 46 of Metal Fury.
Can you provide a sub for the Japanese versions?
Well to be fair you were the one that shifted the debate but regardless both points clearly seem to favour Ryuga.
I'll just say this kyouya spend the entire metal saga training to beat and catch up to gingka and failed, while gingka was playing catch up to ryuga and succeed by doing the same thing ryuga was doing traveling the world and live in harsh environments with harsh conditions in zero g. anything kyouya had face in training both ryuga and gingka face then on a daily basis and more extreme physically and mentally . you know what's funny Kenta became top tier just by following ryuga's way of life/training now that I think about pretty ironic who put Kenta on world class level .
(Oct. 30, 2020 5:19 AM)God Dragruler Wrote: [ -> ]Well zeutron pretty much give the perfect replied i'll Just add this even if kyouya did beat all the legend at the end of the series its not like ryuga couldnt do the same if he wanted. Anything kyouya can do ryuga can Just do it better, Each time kyouya battles ryuga he either loses or gets schooled of not knowing his own bey (metal Fury) And also loses to gingka yes he fights on par he always ended up Losing each time plus when he fought gingka during metal master gingka hadnt even mastered galaxy yet which he did during the julian match thx to well I forgot about that ryuga who give gingka a hint on galaxy true potential. when you get ryuga vs gingka theirs legit a 50% chance of gingka Losing, while kyouya has 70 % chance of Losing to ginkga
You're missing the point. After his first loss against Ginga, Kyoya only cares about defeating him. He could care less about losing to anyone else, because he's not after them. Ginga's the only one he's after, and he uses that as his motivations to to get stronger. Sure you can say the same about some of the other bladers, but none of them have taken this to the same degree as Kyoya(Kenta comes close), and through this, he was able to improve himself. He was just a normal blader with a normal bey. He didn't have some super special uber bey of destiny, and despite this, he was able to climb his way up to levels that are only rivalled by the two legendary beyblades, themselves. Because of this, his transition to a legendary blader feels actually earned. Meanwhile, Ryuga has to get all the special treatment because L-Drago is Pegasis' dark counterpart, and pegasis is the face of MFB.
(Oct. 30, 2020 6:39 AM)Dracieleone Wrote: [ -> ] (Oct. 30, 2020 5:19 AM)God Dragruler Wrote: [ -> ]Well zeutron pretty much give the perfect replied i'll Just add this even if kyouya did beat all the legend at the end of the series its not like ryuga couldnt do the same if he wanted. Anything kyouya can do ryuga can Just do it better, Each time kyouya battles ryuga he either loses or gets schooled of not knowing his own bey (metal Fury) And also loses to gingka yes he fights on par he always ended up Losing each time plus when he fought gingka during metal master gingka hadnt even mastered galaxy yet which he did during the julian match thx to well I forgot about that ryuga who give gingka a hint on galaxy true potential. when you get ryuga vs gingka theirs legit a 50% chance of gingka Losing, while kyouya has 70 % chance of Losing to ginkga
You're missing the point. After his first loss against Ginga, Kyoya only cares about defeating him. He could care less about losing to anyone else, because he's not after them. Ginga's the only one he's after, and he uses that as his motivations to to get stronger. Sure you can say the same about some of the other bladers, but none of them have taken this to the same degree as Kyoya(Kenta comes close), and through this, he was able to improve himself. He was just a normal blader with a normal bey. He didn't have some super special uber bey of destiny, and despite this, he was able to climb his way up to levels that are only rivalled by the two legendary beyblades, themselves. Because of this, his transition to a legendary blader feels actually earned. Meanwhile, Ryuga has to get all the special treatment because L-Drago is Pegasis' dark counterpart, and pegasis is the face of MFB.
definitely you hav a point there; Kyoya has worked hard; but to say that hes worked harder than ryuga is wrong. I can understand if you say he works harder than gingka . But Ryuga has been shown to work the hardest. In the dub version it has been stated as well as the original version (I asked someone who knows japanese).
I would say in terms of hardwork we can see Ryuga > Kyoya > Gingka > Kenta (in season 3) and so on..
(Oct. 30, 2020 7:09 AM)Vtryuga Wrote: [ -> ] (Oct. 30, 2020 6:39 AM)Dracieleone Wrote: [ -> ]You're missing the point. After his first loss against Ginga, Kyoya only cares about defeating him. He could care less about losing to anyone else, because he's not after them. Ginga's the only one he's after, and he uses that as his motivations to to get stronger. Sure you can say the same about some of the other bladers, but none of them have taken this to the same degree as Kyoya(Kenta comes close), and through this, he was able to improve himself. He was just a normal blader with a normal bey. He didn't have some super special uber bey of destiny, and despite this, he was able to climb his way up to levels that are only rivalled by the two legendary beyblades, themselves. Because of this, his transition to a legendary blader feels actually earned. Meanwhile, Ryuga has to get all the special treatment because L-Drago is Pegasis' dark counterpart, and pegasis is the face of MFB.
definitely you hav a point there; Kyoya has worked hard; but to say that hes worked harder than ryuga is wrong. I can understand if you say he works harder than gingka . But Ryuga has been shown to work the hardest. In the dub version it has been stated as well as the original version (I asked someone who knows japanese).
I would say in terms of hardwork we can see Ryuga > Kyoya > Gingka > Kenta (in season 3) and so on..
Ryuga might've trained more, during 4D, but he never trains to get stronger, at all. He only trains to control L-Drago's power, due to how he was never supposed to have it, in the first place. He might've been seemingly able to match Nemesis, blow for blow, but, Kyoya, Kenta, Ginga, and Chris got closer to defeating Nemesis than Ryuga ever did.
(Oct. 30, 2020 8:01 AM)Dracieleone Wrote: [ -> ] (Oct. 30, 2020 7:09 AM)Vtryuga Wrote: [ -> ]definitely you hav a point there; Kyoya has worked hard; but to say that hes worked harder than ryuga is wrong. I can understand if you say he works harder than gingka . But Ryuga has been shown to work the hardest. In the dub version it has been stated as well as the original version (I asked someone who knows japanese).
I would say in terms of hardwork we can see Ryuga > Kyoya > Gingka > Kenta (in season 3) and so on..
Ryuga might've trained more, during 4D, but he never trains to get stronger, at all. He only trains to control L-Drago's power, due to how he was never supposed to have it, in the first place. He might've been seemingly able to match Nemesis, blow for blow, but, Kyoya, Kenta, Ginga, and Chris got closer to defeating Nemesis than Ryuga ever did.
That’s because it’s a difference of multiple legendary bladers two of which happened to be Kenta and Gingka as well as three additional support bladers, obviously they did better that’s not a good point. Also he didn’t always train to control that power, that was only when he had lightning L-Drago. He already stated that the power was his own once Meteo L-Drago was obtained. From there it was always training to get stronger and endure more. Also earlier you mentioned that Kyoya beat Damian but in the manga Ryuga beat Faust (the metal fusion final boss) all on his own, a blader undoubtedly far better than Damian while Gingka and Masamune had to team up to even win. As for what you said about L-Drago getting special treatment, it’s true but that doesn’t justify Kyoya being a better blader or harder worker because it doesn’t change the fact that Ryuga was implicitly meant to be the stronger blader and harder worker from the very beginning as he is the deuteragonist of mfb. Both the manga and anime stress that Ryuga was the only person fit to control L-Drago’s power so it’s definitely a two way thing between Ryuga and L-Drago. Another point you make is that he had a “normal bey” but let’s be honest he definitely didn’t. In metal fusion, Pegasus and L-Drago were originally thought to be special because they we’re two opposing twins birthed from two star fragments however as it turns out, in metal fury they weren’t the only two beys born from star fragments (hint hint) so it turned out Kyoya had a special bey all along as well.
(Oct. 30, 2020 4:40 AM)Dracieleone Wrote: [ -> ] (Oct. 30, 2020 3:58 AM)God Dragruler Wrote: [ -> ]Kyoya only mostly stays close to japan And mainly while ryuga literally travel around the World actually sleeps in the wild constantlty facing dangerous animal everyday trains in VOLCANOS to the point the activated. The only times kyouya was showed to do something like that was back an S1 in the valley but thats still a japan ginkga did his crazy journey back in koma village which is more impressive the other time was when he went to África battle And survive those tornados which is impressive but Again ryuga is legit lives And travel in the wild around the world. Plus after rago beat ryuga kyouya himself stated out of the bladers ryuga has trained the hardest even the character himself said so.
Yeah, but consider consider Kyoya's battle with Damian. Ginga, with Galaxy Pegasis, the implied world's most powerful bey, struggled with defeating Hell Kerbecs, and if the dub is anything to go by, had to also borrow power from Ryuga to do so. Meanwhile, Kyoya, who's been stuck with the same Rock Leone from the first episode, not only tied with Ginga, but absolutely mentally broke Damian. Keep in mind that he did this all without upgrading his bey. In metal Fury, during his battle with Kenta, you can see that Ryuga is slipping in his skills, as if he's just been relying L-Drago's powers to carry him. Additionally, let's not forget that, in the epilogue, it's implied that Kyoya had defeated every single legendary blader, barring Ginga. Considering who he was going up against(including Kenta, who replaced Ryuga as a legendary blader), do you honestly think he hadn't gone through some training to do that?
Just to say, something RYuga was the only person to have been one with bey l drago. He destroyed Kyoya in metal fury with just saying time to kiss yoru bey good bye, not even using special moves
who would win Sakyo vrs Kyoya, both full potential level!!
(Oct. 30, 2020 2:32 PM)Ryuga\s Son Wrote: [ -> ] (Oct. 30, 2020 4:40 AM)Dracieleone Wrote: [ -> ]Yeah, but consider consider Kyoya's battle with Damian. Ginga, with Galaxy Pegasis, the implied world's most powerful bey, struggled with defeating Hell Kerbecs, and if the dub is anything to go by, had to also borrow power from Ryuga to do so. Meanwhile, Kyoya, who's been stuck with the same Rock Leone from the first episode, not only tied with Ginga, but absolutely mentally broke Damian. Keep in mind that he did this all without upgrading his bey. In metal Fury, during his battle with Kenta, you can see that Ryuga is slipping in his skills, as if he's just been relying L-Drago's powers to carry him. Additionally, let's not forget that, in the epilogue, it's implied that Kyoya had defeated every single legendary blader, barring Ginga. Considering who he was going up against(including Kenta, who replaced Ryuga as a legendary blader), do you honestly think he hadn't gone through some training to do that?
Just to say, something RYuga was the only person to have been one with bey l drago. He destroyed Kyoya in metal fury with just saying time to kiss yoru bey good bye, not even using special moves
who would win Sakyo vrs Kyoya, both full potential level!!
Hard to say, assuming no synchrome is involved and we’re talking about anime Sakyo then the winner is Sakyo.
Seems like Kyoya consistently gets the short end of the stick.
(Oct. 30, 2020 3:32 PM)Admiral W Wrote: [ -> ]Seems like Kyoya consistently gets the short end of the stick.
Not really, he got what was due to his character. He was a companion rival who was at most a tertiary protagonist in season 1 so he got handled like one can’t say it seems short ended.
(Oct. 30, 2020 4:13 PM)Zeutron Wrote: [ -> ] (Oct. 30, 2020 3:32 PM)Admiral W Wrote: [ -> ]Seems like Kyoya consistently gets the short end of the stick.
Not really, he got what was due to his character. He was a companion rival who was at most a tertiary protagonist in season 1 so he got handled like one can’t say it seems short ended.
Would have been nice for him to at least once get the one up on Gingka. At least once. Especially considering he was one of his main rivals. The most we got on that front was a draw.
(Oct. 30, 2020 4:34 PM)Admiral W Wrote: [ -> ] (Oct. 30, 2020 4:13 PM)Zeutron Wrote: [ -> ]Not really, he got what was due to his character. He was a companion rival who was at most a tertiary protagonist in season 1 so he got handled like one can’t say it seems short ended.
Would have been nice for him to at least once get the one up on Gingka. At least once. Especially considering he was one of his main rivals. The most we got on that front was a draw.
I guess that does seem fair but at the same time they usually battled during moments where Gingka needed to have his strength highlighted (usually for introductory purposes) so it doesn’t surprise me that they simply couldn’t let him win. They should have had him battle Gingka to “snap him out of something” that could be a good moment to let him win.
(Oct. 30, 2020 4:50 PM)Zeutron Wrote: [ -> ] (Oct. 30, 2020 4:34 PM)Admiral W Wrote: [ -> ]Would have been nice for him to at least once get the one up on Gingka. At least once. Especially considering he was one of his main rivals. The most we got on that front was a draw.
I guess that does seem fair but at the same time they usually battled during moments where Gingka needed to have his strength highlighted (usually for introductory purposes) so it doesn’t surprise me that they simply couldn’t let him win. They should have had him battle Gingka to “snap him out of something” that could be a good moment to let him win.
Over the breath of three seasons an opportunity for that certainly could have been created.
(Oct. 30, 2020 4:55 PM)Admiral W Wrote: [ -> ] (Oct. 30, 2020 4:50 PM)Zeutron Wrote: [ -> ]I guess that does seem fair but at the same time they usually battled during moments where Gingka needed to have his strength highlighted (usually for introductory purposes) so it doesn’t surprise me that they simply couldn’t let him win. They should have had him battle Gingka to “snap him out of something” that could be a good moment to let him win.
Over the breath of three seasons an opportunity for that certainly could have been created.
Yeah you’re right, they could have undoubtedly done something about it.
(Oct. 30, 2020 4:56 PM)Zeutron Wrote: [ -> ] (Oct. 30, 2020 4:55 PM)Admiral W Wrote: [ -> ]Over the breath of three seasons an opportunity for that certainly could have been created.
Yeah you’re right, they could have undoubtedly done something about it.
He deserved at least one true victory over Gingka. Never got it unfortunately.
(Oct. 30, 2020 4:58 PM)Admiral W Wrote: [ -> ] (Oct. 30, 2020 4:56 PM)Zeutron Wrote: [ -> ]Yeah you’re right, they could have undoubtedly done something about it.
He deserved at least one true victory over Gingka. Never got it unfortunately.
He did beat Ginga, in that battle royale match.