World Beyblade Organization by Fighting Spirits Inc.

(Apr. 11, 2019  2:35 PM)MagikHorse Wrote: [ -> ]All you guys are going on about Grand Dragon and Grand Beat and I'm going "Hey, isn't Wizard probably the name of the new Fafnir base?"

Everyone already came to that conclusion

(Apr. 11, 2019  5:07 PM)BeyCrafter Wrote: [ -> ]Everyone already came to that conclusion

And not a single one ever said it.

(Apr. 11, 2019  10:06 PM)MagikHorse Wrote: [ -> ]

(Apr. 11, 2019  5:07 PM)BeyCrafter Wrote: [ -> ]Everyone already came to that conclusion

And not a single one ever said it.

Because it's so blatantly obvious

(Apr. 11, 2019  10:20 PM)BeyCrafter Wrote: [ -> ]Because it's so blatantly obvious

Obvious or not, I was expecting at least one person to react to it in some way. If anything people usually jump all over new information like names, which made it feel all sorts of weird to me that absolutely nobody said a single thing about it. The silence is altogether very, very strange.

There is also the fact that Fafnir is known for one gimmick that retains in all its iterations throughout Burst, there is no point in any speculation other than how much rubber is exposed with Wizard and if it has good spin steal potential. And I guess how tight the Base is, which will not be so tight since it is a Stamina type Base.

(Apr. 12, 2019  12:35 AM)BeyCrafter Wrote: [ -> ]There is also the fact that Fafnir is known for one gimmick that retains in all its iterations throughout Burst, there is no point in any speculation other than how much rubber is exposed with Wizard and if it has good spin steal potential. And I guess how tight the Base is, which will not be so tight since it is a Stamina type Base.

This isn't necessarily the case. Drain Fafnir in had tall teeth (alongside everything that came out on the 8 disk not named "Maximum Garuda"), and Geist Fafnir followed in its footsteps, only easily bursted due to its overly aggressive design. It's more likely than not that it'll have fairly good teeth.

(Apr. 12, 2019  1:44 AM)MagikHorse Wrote: [ -> ]

(Apr. 12, 2019  12:35 AM)BeyCrafter Wrote: [ -> ]There is also the fact that Fafnir is known for one gimmick that retains in all its iterations throughout Burst, there is no point in any speculation other than how much rubber is exposed with Wizard and if it has good spin steal potential. And I guess how tight the Base is, which will not be so tight since it is a Stamina type Base.

This isn't necessarily the case. Drain Fafnir in had tall teeth (alongside everything that came out on the 8 disk not named "Maximum Garuda"), and Geist Fafnir followed in its footsteps, only easily bursted due to its overly aggressive design. It's more likely than not that it'll have fairly good teeth.

If you're right, then Wizard could allow Fafnir's teeth to be close to Ace's teeth allowance. Also, I didn't know dF's teeth were tall. Now that I think about it, make sense because of the rubber.

(Apr. 12, 2019  5:43 AM)BeyCrafter Wrote: [ -> ]If you're right, then Wizard could allow Fafnir's teeth to be close to Ace's teeth allowance. Also, I didn't know dF's teeth were tall. Now that I think about it, make sense because of the rubber.

Yeah. It'd basically need it to avoid being insta-bursted by other left spin beys, otherwise the rubber could catch and it'd be donezo in an instant. That was just Lost Longinus at the time, since Legend Spriggan wouldn't follow until 2 months later, but even then they'd know it was coming and needed at least a little protection from it.

That, and it had to hold back 8 and its terrible burst resistance in stock. Given that Screw Trident and Wolborg also had strong teeth (although Screw Trident never worked out in the burst resistance department due to its shape, much like Geist Fafnir), I swear they knew about that flaw.

We've seen a golden Slash Valkyrie, but a golden Ace and a golden Zan? Interesting.

(Apr. 12, 2019  6:05 AM)MagikHorse Wrote: [ -> ]Yeah. It'd basically need it to avoid being insta-bursted by other left spin beys, otherwise the rubber could catch and it'd be donezo in an instant. That was just Lost Longinus at the time, since Legend Spriggan wouldn't follow until 2 months later, but even then they'd know it was coming and needed at least a little protection from it.

again everyone assumes that the rubber of fafnir give it the spin equalisation. well i would like to remind you and everyone that the amount of rubber that makes contact is inconsiderable. the only true rubber based spin stealer is meteo L-drago. drain is good at it due to the shape of its contact point, in essence it is a shape based spin equaliser. it didn't need to have strong teeth because of rubber, but because of the possible same spin match-ups, provided by lost longinus, legend spriggan, and nightmare longinus. the bursting of a bey depends on many things, but it can be judged to a rough extent by looking at the recoil vs teeth strength ratio. drain has low recoil so mediocre teeth do the job, geist has aggressive recoil it needed to have better teeth at least valkyrie like. this new wizard fafnir is promising nearly meteo L-drago level of rubber, and depending on how soft it is, and its fairly low recoil compared to geist(assumed from the smoother shape) it could be a L-drago rebirth.
its parts seem to be optimised for LAD, leave the disc, but if this bey stays upright like one of crazy aries' created driver then all the disc needs to be is heavy, and sustain disc-layer contact against same spin. considering the presumed gimmick, thats what it does. 

so far this could turn out to be the best of the gatinko releases so far. now i'm praying for a Longinus.

(Apr. 12, 2019  8:29 PM)Garvin prime Wrote: [ -> ]again everyone assumes that the rubber of fafnir give it the spin equalisation. well i would like to remind you and everyone that the amount of rubber that makes contact is inconsiderable. the only true rubber based spin stealer is meteo L-drago. drain is good at it due to the shape of its contact point, in essence it is a shape based spin equaliser.

Then explain why Hasbro's release, which has harder rubber with less grip, is notably less effective at stealing spin with an equivalent shape? The rubber makes more of a difference than you seem to think it does on Drain Fafnir, even if the shape assists it. Geist is even more reliant on its rubber given its aggressive shape, which hinders its spin stealing capabilities by creating recoil instead.

It sorta feels like you're trying too hard to call me out here and that irks me a tad, especially since it's not entirely accurate itself.

(Apr. 12, 2019  8:29 PM)Garvin prime Wrote: [ -> ]it didn't need to have strong teeth because of rubber, but because of the possible same spin match-ups, provided by lost longinus, legend spriggan, and nightmare longinus.

I... just said that, so I don't understand why you're repeating me here. That was one of my two main points even!

(Apr. 12, 2019  8:29 PM)Garvin prime Wrote: [ -> ]the bursting of a bey depends on many things, but it can be judged to a rough extent by looking at the recoil vs teeth strength ratio. drain has low recoil so mediocre teeth do the job, geist has aggressive recoil it needed to have better teeth at least valkyrie like.

Although true, I'm not really sure this needed an in-depth explanation.

(Apr. 12, 2019  8:29 PM)Garvin prime Wrote: [ -> ]this new wizard fafnir is promising nearly meteo L-drago level of rubber, and depending on how soft it is, and its fairly low recoil compared to geist(assumed from the smoother shape) it could be a L-drago rebirth. its parts seem to be optimised for LAD, leave the disc, but if this bey stays upright like one of crazy aries' created driver then all the disc needs to be is heavy, and sustain disc-layer contact against same spin. considering the presumed gimmick, thats what it does. 
so far this could turn out to be the best of the gatinko releases so far. now i'm praying for a Longinus.

This part I agree with though.

I'm praying for a new Satan, Jinnus, Trident, and Forneus!

(Apr. 13, 2019  1:08 AM)Anime2012Mii Wrote: [ -> ]I'm praying for a new Satan, Jinnus, Trident, and Forneus!

Too late for Forneus. Fafnir took the F spot already.

(Apr. 13, 2019  1:19 AM)BeyCrafter Wrote: [ -> ]

(Apr. 13, 2019  1:08 AM)Anime2012Mii Wrote: [ -> ]I'm praying for a new Satan, Jinnus, Trident, and Forneus!

Too late for Forneus. Fafnir took the F spot already.

They could still go against the name scheme. Geist Fafnir came out after Emperor Forneus. The bigger reason why forneus prob won’t come back is because it’s unlikely that Cho z characters/beys will come back.

(Apr. 13, 2019  3:22 AM)Real_ilinnuc Wrote: [ -> ]

(Apr. 13, 2019  1:19 AM)BeyCrafter Wrote: [ -> ]Too late for Forneus. Fafnir took the F spot already.

They could still go against the name scheme. Geist Fafnir came out after Emperor Forneus. The bigger reason why forneus prob won’t come back is because it’s unlikely that Cho z characters/beys will come back.

Actually, they really can't reuse the Gatinko Chip letters, because the initials would get confusing if you swapped parts. Like, BA is Bushin Ashura right? Let's say there was a new Achilles called... uh... Rogue Achilles, it would be "RA". Now what happens if you switched the chips between Ashura and Achilles? It would be "BA" for Bushin Achilles" and "RA" for "Rogue Ashura". You see the problem? I mean they could fix it with alternate characters like lower case for the chip name if it overlaps or introduce a sub letter, but we'll have to see.

(Apr. 13, 2019  3:34 AM)Jinbee Wrote: [ -> ]

(Apr. 13, 2019  3:22 AM)Real_ilinnuc Wrote: [ -> ]They could still go against the name scheme. Geist Fafnir came out after Emperor Forneus. The bigger reason why forneus prob won’t come back is because it’s unlikely that Cho z characters/beys will come back.

Actually, they really can't reuse the Gatinko Chip letters, because the initials would get confusing if you swapped parts. Like, BA is Bushin Ashura right? Let's say there was a new Achilles called... uh... Rogue Achilles, it would be "RA". Now what happens if you switched the chips between Ashura and Achilles? It would be "BA" for Bushin Achilles" and "RA" for "Rogue Ashura". You see the problem? I mean they could fix it with alternate characters like lower case for the chip name if it overlaps or introduce a sub letter, but we'll have to see.

My guess is that if it happens they will use greek letters.

(Apr. 13, 2019  3:34 AM)Jinbee Wrote: [ -> ]

(Apr. 13, 2019  3:22 AM)Real_ilinnuc Wrote: [ -> ]They could still go against the name scheme. Geist Fafnir came out after Emperor Forneus. The bigger reason why forneus prob won’t come back is because it’s unlikely that Cho z characters/beys will come back.

Actually, they really can't reuse the Gatinko Chip letters, because the initials would get confusing if you swapped parts. Like, BA is Bushin Ashura right? Let's say there was a new Achilles called... uh... Rogue Achilles, it would be "RA". Now what happens if you switched the chips between Ashura and Achilles? It would be "BA" for Bushin Achilles" and "RA" for "Rogue Ashura". You see the problem? I mean they could fix it with alternate characters like lower case for the chip name if it overlaps or introduce a sub letter, but we'll have to see.

Very true. GT is a bit more limiting.

(Apr. 12, 2019  10:24 PM)MagikHorse Wrote: [ -> ]Then explain why Hasbro's release, which has harder rubber with less grip, is notably less effective at stealing spin with an equivalent shape? The rubber makes more of a difference than you seem to think it does on Drain Fafnir, even if the shape assists it. Geist is even more reliant on its rubber given its aggressive shape, which hinders its spin stealing capabilities by creating recoil instead.

It sorta feels like you're trying too hard to call me out here and that irks me a tad, especially since it's not entirely accurate itself.

hey buddy, don't mind me. i just get that late night bouts of aggression sometimes. i wasn't calling you out specifically i was just using your post to make the point.
as far as the rubber goes, i might agree but after given satisfactory test results. sure hasbro Fafnir might be terrible. i dont usually bother looking at hasbro releases( no offence to hasbro users ). i think you will agree that all rubber that is contact worthy in Fafnir is basically two tiny vertical strips. at high spins the only contact point that makes 'contact' is the one which is the further most out( correct my english over here, this sentence feels wrong ) which in Fafnir's case is the transparent blue crest on the dragon head. at lower spin speeds in opposite spin battle, the shape of the layer comes in. imagine a wedge being pushed and a knifes blade being pushed. which is easier? offcourse the wedge. fafnir's layer has a much larger wedge shape behind the neck of the dragon's paired with rougher design elements. and Fafnir having rubber does help. just not to that extent, because hitting that rubber mid battle is kinda like hitting a home run with the bat in between your thighs ( kids, don't try this at home xD ) Geist has much more rubber contact, but that is during high spin plus the aggressive shape kinda kills it. overall we can talk about this a whole lot, cause neither of us have enough testing about Drain Fafnir's spin steal causality.
and dude i am sorry if you felt bad about the way i said thing in the previous post and this one, my bad. please know that i had no intension of doing the same.

(Apr. 13, 2019  6:39 AM)Garvin prime Wrote: [ -> ]hey buddy, don't mind me. i just get that late night bouts of aggression sometimes. i wasn't calling you out specifically i was just using your post to make the point.
as far as the rubber goes, i might agree but after given satisfactory test results. sure hasbro Fafnir might be terrible. i dont usually bother looking at hasbro releases( no offence to hasbro users ). i think you will agree that all rubber that is contact worthy in Fafnir is basically two tiny vertical strips. at high spins the only contact point that makes 'contact' is the one which is the further most out( correct my english over here, this sentence feels wrong ) which in Fafnir's case is the transparent blue crest on the dragon head. at lower spin speeds in opposite spin battle, the shape of the layer comes in. imagine a wedge being pushed and a knifes blade being pushed. which is easier? offcourse the wedge. fafnir's layer has a much larger wedge shape behind the neck of the dragon's paired with rougher design elements. and Fafnir having rubber does help. just not to that extent, because hitting that rubber mid battle is kinda like hitting a home run with the bat in between your thighs ( kids, don't try this at home xD ) Geist has much more rubber contact, but that is during high spin plus the aggressive shape kinda kills it. overall we can talk about this a whole lot, cause neither of us have enough testing about Drain Fafnir's spin steal causality.
and dude i am sorry if you felt bad about the way i said thing in the previous post and this one, my bad. please know that i had no intension of doing the same.

I'll admit that I overhyped the rubber a little bit, mostly off of past experiences of fighting Meteo L-Drago against itself (Protip: don't ever do this. They will go flying all over the place, and the battle will end within about a second of their first contact). My point is still valid that the rubber makes a significant impact, as although Hasbro's Drain Fafnir can work out fine it's definitely less effective at stealing spin with an otherwise equivalent design. It's not "terrible", just not as good. This sort of difference between them is actually one major reason how I know what parts of its design helps for spin equalization, the "causality" as you put it, especially since physics was and still is a specialty of mine. I know what I'm saying in this regard.

To counter your point about the rubber not being hittable, what gets hit in battle is based on the relative speed between the two beys topped with a dose of sheer chance. Drain Fafnir is rounded enough that nearly everything but its deepest valleys between the heads is a fair contact point, not just the dragon crests forthest from the center, and so both of its rubber points are possible contacts at basically any time regardless of the opponent since there's plenty of space to hit them and they're relatively unimpeded. Really the only space that doesn't get hit regularly is the valley in front of the dragon heads, as it's the only truly hard to access space.

Geist Fafnir's rubber is meant to pull away at high spin velocities, although you're correct that it doesn't work at all. There's always the option to light launch it though to avoid high spin velocities, which is a decent idea against right-spin opponents and reduces its bursting risk against them as the rubber is enough to keep it alive for a while. Against another left-spin opponent you're probably just toast though.

(Apr. 13, 2019  7:53 AM)MagikHorse Wrote: [ -> ]To counter your point about the rubber not being hittable, what gets hit in battle is based on the relative speed between the two beys topped with a dose of sheer chance. Drain Fafnir is rounded enough that nearly everything but its deepest valleys between the heads is a fair contact point, not just the dragon crests forthest from the center, and so both of its rubber points are possible contacts at basically any time regardless of the opponent since there's plenty of space to hit them and they're relatively unimpeded. Really the only space that doesn't get hit regularly is the valley in front of the dragon heads, as it's the only truly hard to access space.

Geist Fafnir's rubber is meant to pull away at high spin velocities, although you're correct that it doesn't work at all. There's always the option to light launch it though to avoid high spin velocities, which is a decent idea against right-spin opponents and reduces its bursting risk against them as the rubber is enough to keep it alive for a while. Against another left-spin opponent you're probably just toast though.

i do agree. but i have an extra fake drain fafnir and it is almost exactly the same in performance, except i made its teeth better. i doesn't have rubber at all. so i think there might be variations in performances. rest i agree with you.

(Apr. 13, 2019  1:16 PM)Garvin prime Wrote: [ -> ]i do agree. but i have an extra fake drain fafnir and it is almost exactly the same in performance, except i made its teeth better. i doesn't have rubber at all. so i think there might be variations in performances. rest i agree with you.

Sadly you can't judge much about the real thing with fakes. Even if it looks similar, there is likely changes to it that you can't see, such as a different type of plastic being used that just happens to grip well. That doesn't really work as an argument with so many unknown variables that could be called into play with a fake.

Hasbro, on the other hand, is an official company with access to the official design. They're far more accurate to the TT original, and yet they have harder rubber and less spin stealing power. It's easy to put 2 and 2 together there.

(Apr. 13, 2019  3:34 AM)Jinbee Wrote: [ -> ]

(Apr. 13, 2019  3:22 AM)Real_ilinnuc Wrote: [ -> ]They could still go against the name scheme. Geist Fafnir came out after Emperor Forneus. The bigger reason why forneus prob won’t come back is because it’s unlikely that Cho z characters/beys will come back.

Actually, they really can't reuse the Gatinko Chip letters, because the initials would get confusing if you swapped parts. Like, BA is Bushin Ashura right? Let's say there was a new Achilles called... uh... Rogue Achilles, it would be "RA". Now what happens if you switched the chips between Ashura and Achilles? It would be "BA" for Bushin Achilles" and "RA" for "Rogue Ashura". You see the problem? I mean they could fix it with alternate characters like lower case for the chip name if it overlaps or introduce a sub letter, but we'll have to see.

but don't we almost already have that issue though I mean we have delta as one of the main guy in Gt and his name start with the Letter D like drum so we'll have that problem once we know what bey delta have.

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(Apr. 13, 2019  1:19 AM)BeyCrafter Wrote: [ -> ]

(Apr. 13, 2019  1:08 AM)Anime2012Mii Wrote: [ -> ]I'm praying for a new Satan, Jinnus, Trident, and Forneus!

Too late for Forneus. Fafnir took the F spot already.

it might not be the case though remember we got to characters who named start with D both delta and drum so it will be to beys that start with the Letter D.

(Apr. 13, 2019  5:37 PM)God Dragruler Wrote: [ -> ]

(Apr. 13, 2019  3:34 AM)Jinbee Wrote: [ -> ]Actually, they really can't reuse the Gatinko Chip letters, because the initials would get confusing if you swapped parts. Like, BA is Bushin Ashura right? Let's say there was a new Achilles called... uh... Rogue Achilles, it would be "RA". Now what happens if you switched the chips between Ashura and Achilles? It would be "BA" for Bushin Achilles" and "RA" for "Rogue Ashura". You see the problem? I mean they could fix it with alternate characters like lower case for the chip name if it overlaps or introduce a sub letter, but we'll have to see.

but don't we almost already have that problem though I mean we have delta as one of the main guy in Gt and his band start with the Letter D like drum so we'll have that problem once we know what bey delta have.

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(Apr. 13, 2019  1:19 AM)BeyCrafter Wrote: [ -> ]Too late for Forneus. Fafnir took the F spot already.

it might not be the case though remember we got to characters who named start with D both delta and drum so it will be to beys that start with the Letter D.

We need to know whether letter overlapping will become a thing once we see if Delta uses Dragon or not. Maybe they'll ditch the initials for the layers or maybe they won't, we won't know till we know what Delta uses.

Easy solution to the Gatinko Chip initial problem: use a two-letter initial scheme like the Drivers or GT Discs, where they use the first letter + first consonant after the first letter. For example, Achilles can be Ac, Deathscyther could be Dt, Forneus could be Fr, etc. Not the most elegant solution, considering it would make the full abbreviation for a complete GT Layer four characters long, but it works.