May. 21, 2019 1:23 PM
(May. 21, 2019 1:20 PM)bladekid Wrote: [ -> ]Rubber attack layer? What beys in classic have rubber on the layers?
Rubber attack tips. I used the wrong noun by mistake.
(May. 21, 2019 1:20 PM)bladekid Wrote: [ -> ]Rubber attack layer? What beys in classic have rubber on the layers?
(May. 25, 2019 3:14 AM)RacingCheetahz Wrote: [ -> ]Here's my 2 cents, if it's fun to play, not much changes are needed.
From what I've heard from other people, they prefer playing or watching matches with attack types in them; So drivers like X' shouldn't be banned on a "Fun" front.
Also the only major benefit I can see currently that Tornado Stallers would get from ' drivers is a stronger countering to Stationary Attack combos like Octavor and V.H.Y (for example), which they already counter.
(May. 25, 2019 1:51 PM)DeceasedCrab Wrote: [ -> ]V2 has not been plaguing the meta at all. Go check the winning combinations thread.
(May. 31, 2019 12:48 AM)AirKingNeo Wrote: [ -> ]To the discussion of Dash drivers, I repeat again: There is no reason for any Dash driver that is currently banned to be banned since they all worse than X' (except Ds', Zt', and possibly Z'). This is provided that Classic Format is going to allow X'. Ds' and Z' should probably be unbanned in this scenario (they probably won't warp the meta, and you can always just ban them if they somehow do). Qc' should already be unbanned following precedent with Hn' and Jl'. The people managing this format have been extremely slow on this. Does anyone actually think that drivers as bad as B', Mr', or Vl' are going to break Burst Classic? I mentioned this topic in January, and the format organizers still haven't figured it out that a ban on the weaker dash drivers while allowing the strongest (besides Ds') doesn't make logical sense.
(May. 31, 2019 12:48 AM)AirKingNeo Wrote: [ -> ]That doesn't mean I am in favor of Dash drivers for this format. I'm just stating that under the current rules where we're allowing X', there's absolutely no reason to ban any Dash driver because they are all weaker (besides Ds', Zt', and possibly Z'). Personally, I think the format should ban almost all Dash drivers. I think "disliking self bursting" is kinda poor reasoning. Why shouldn't defense types be able to burst attack types? It's important to note that I didn't say all Dash drivers, just most. Dash variants of already weaker drivers such as Merge, Fusion, Blow, and Volcanic should totally be allowed to stay. Testing should be done for Dash variants of Zephyr, Reboot, Hold, and Accel. Dash varients for Xtreme, Hunter, Jolt, Zeta, and Destroy should just be banned (there is no non-Dash version of Quick, but Quick' would be banned). This means attack can burst to non-attack types, but if you do want the tighter spring, you're gonna have to take a trade-off of less attack power.
(May. 31, 2019 12:48 AM)AirKingNeo Wrote: [ -> ]I still think we should look into unbanning some of the core disks (not 0/7/10/00) with frames still banned, but I don't know how those discs compare to the likes of Gravity, Heavy, Polish, Knuckle, and Yell to say for absolutely sure. Just to increase the availability to make the format more accessible.
(May. 31, 2019 1:21 AM)~Mana~ Wrote: [ -> ]It's similar to the calls at the start like "Unban 11! Unban 13! Both aren't OP!"Actually to me it sounds more like "Free the 12!" but in wall of text format.
(May. 31, 2019 2:27 AM)DeceasedCrab Wrote: [ -> ](May. 31, 2019 1:21 AM)~Mana~ Wrote: [ -> ]It's similar to the calls at the start like "Unban 11! Unban 13! Both aren't OP!"Actually to me it sounds more like "Free the 12!" but in wall of text format.
(May. 31, 2019 1:21 AM)~Mana~ Wrote: [ -> ]I don't think either of these are fair points. Were the events over the past month with Dash Drivers permitted not a sign that we've looked into it? Or even the reflections from us in this thread after actually participating in these events?
Be fair, be reasonable. Your statements here are neither of these things; they completely overlook trial changes that started a month ago, insult a careful format planning process (keeping in mind that this'll be a ranked format, so better safe than sorry), and even seem to imply a lack of reading previous posts in the thread.
(May. 31, 2019 1:21 AM)~Mana~ Wrote: [ -> ]And this is precisely why we're being careful. I don't even consider Xtreme' to be a Driver that's locked-in and definitely staying honestly; during the experimental period (which we haven't said has ended yet for a good reason), no part is safe, and every single part is still under consideration, permitted or not.
Precisely why it's wrong to make assumptions, why we're running Dash-permitted events (and should probably run full Dash-banned events too), and why we're not rushing on committing changes to the actual ruleset straight away. Data is important in this planning process and, thanks to the events that have taken place, be it default or Dash-permitted, we have a lot to go on to make some actual informed decisions rather than purely assuming an unproven opinionated point as the holy gospel.
(May. 31, 2019 1:21 AM)~Mana~ Wrote: [ -> ]Asides from accessibility; why? What point does this serve than unbanning for the sake of it?
It's similar to the calls at the start like "Unban 11! Unban 13! Both aren't OP!"; outside of accessibility (which I'll highlight that for Classic, if you own Layers for the Format, you almost definitely own Disks too because of how the SKUs work), these serve as things people want permitted for the sake of it, and not for any good reason.
I'll emphasise the same point I keep making; not everything is supposed to be or ever will be viable in every format. You'll always have parts that aren't useful in a format at all, and the part existing or someone owning that part is not a right to be like "yeah, I should be able to compete with this". As far as I'm concerned, these Core Disks fall under this; permitting them would kill the OG Disks outright as people would only use 4, 5, 6, and that's not even in the spirit of Classic either.
(May. 31, 2019 1:21 AM)~Mana~ Wrote: [ -> ]And while it's mentioned above; yes, we've hit 10 events for Classic! Thanks to all our Organizers who have taken part in the push to gather tournament data and officially get this format ranked. Unfortunately, as stated above, we're looking to continue the Experimental period for Classic until the end of June to finalise our findings and ensure that the ruleset that goes live for ranked is the best ruleset we could plan.
Our major consideration right now is where to place Dash Drivers and, as stated above also, we'd also encourage Organizers running Classic events to also consider running Dash-banned events to see the impact of the metagame when Dash Drivers are effectively reverted back to their base forms (so regular Xtreme instead of Xtreme' etc).
Thanks all!
(May. 31, 2019 6:51 AM)AirKingNeo Wrote: [ -> ]It's reasonable to say that drivers who have all been outclassed by Xtreme will also be outclassed by Xtreme' if they are also a Dash driver. X > (Mr, Vl, B, A, Rb, H), so X' > (Mr', Vl', B', A', Rb', H').Hold and Hold’ are driver commonly used for “LAD” type battles.... when you have a good Hold it can out “LAD” Destroy. I don’t know that Xtreme>Hold... kind of like Apple>Orange? (I have been taught it’s actually avoiding precession but old habits die hard. I will incorrectly call it LAD for now)
(May. 31, 2019 7:08 AM)Shindog Wrote: [ -> ]Vl and Vl’ can be extremely good tornado stallers post “awakening”. Vl’ was in the Asia Championships top 3 deck for that reason just days ago... Again I am not sure how Xtreme’ is better? Are you saying Xtreme is a better tornado staller? A rubber flat?I was just about to post about these 2 drivers with the same arguments. You beat me to it.......
https://imgur.com/gallery/W8uekUB
This shows Vl’ beating At and Br by spin finish...
(May. 31, 2019 9:17 AM)Ash_Ketchum_007 Wrote: [ -> ](May. 31, 2019 7:08 AM)Shindog Wrote: [ -> ]Vl and Vl’ can be extremely good tornado stallers post “awakening”. Vl’ was in the Asia Championships top 3 deck for that reason just days ago... Again I am not sure how Xtreme’ is better? Are you saying Xtreme is a better tornado staller? A rubber flat?I was just about to post about these 2 drivers with the same arguments. You beat me to it.......
https://imgur.com/gallery/W8uekUB
This shows Vl’ beating At and Br by spin finish...
P.S: Am I the only person who was shocked to see volcanic' being used?
What is 'awakening'? Wearing down bumps between the free spinning portion and the rest of the tip, so that it free spins more?
(May. 31, 2019 3:51 PM)1234beyblade Wrote: [ -> ]That sounds... Not very legal for tournaments lol
(May. 31, 2019 7:08 AM)Shindog Wrote: [ -> ]Yeah, for some reason or another, Vl’ is becoming very prominent in Japan on pP. Another Japanese beytube channel that does Deck battles showed pP Vl’ beating pP Xt+, CZS Br, and hS Br somehow.(May. 31, 2019 6:51 AM)AirKingNeo Wrote: [ -> ]It's reasonable to say that drivers who have all been outclassed by Xtreme will also be outclassed by Xtreme' if they are also a Dash driver. X > (Mr, Vl, B, A, Rb, H), so X' > (Mr', Vl', B', A', Rb', H').Hold and Hold’ are driver commonly used for “LAD” type battles.... when you have a good Hold it can out “LAD” Destroy. I don’t know that Xtreme>Hold... kind of like Apple>Orange? (I have been taught it’s actually avoiding precession but old habits die hard. I will incorrectly call it LAD for now)
Vl and Vl’ can be extremely good tornado stallers post “awakening”. Vl’ was in the Asia Championships top 3 deck for that reason just days ago... Again I am not sure how Xtreme’ is better? Are you saying Xtreme is a better tornado staller? A rubber flat?
https://imgur.com/gallery/W8uekUB
This shows Vl’ beating At and Br by spin finish...
(May. 31, 2019 4:35 PM)Ardmore Bladers Wrote: [ -> ](May. 31, 2019 7:08 AM)Shindog Wrote: [ -> ]Hold and Hold’ are driver commonly used for “LAD” type battles.... when you have a good Hold it can out “LAD” Destroy. I don’t know that Xtreme>Hold... kind of like Apple>Orange? (I have been taught it’s actually avoiding precession but old habits die hard. I will incorrectly call it LAD for now)Yeah, for some reason or another, Vl’ is becoming very prominent in Japan on pP. Another Japanese beytube channel that does Deck battles showed pP Vl’ beating pP Xt+, CZS Br, and hS Br somehow.
Vl and Vl’ can be extremely good tornado stallers post “awakening”. Vl’ was in the Asia Championships top 3 deck for that reason just days ago... Again I am not sure how Xtreme’ is better? Are you saying Xtreme is a better tornado staller? A rubber flat?
https://imgur.com/gallery/W8uekUB
This shows Vl’ beating At and Br by spin finish...
(May. 31, 2019 4:49 PM)Shindog Wrote: [ -> ](May. 31, 2019 4:35 PM)Ardmore Bladers Wrote: [ -> ]Yeah, for some reason or another, Vl’ is becoming very prominent in Japan on pP. Another Japanese beytube channel that does Deck battles showed pP Vl’ beating pP Xt+, CZS Br, and hS Br somehow.
Hmm pretty sure those opposite spin combos can win by being launched harder. You can see that at the Asian Championship the Vl’ beat Br by KO. I would think that was by intent.
(May. 31, 2019 7:08 AM)Shindog Wrote: [ -> ](May. 31, 2019 6:51 AM)AirKingNeo Wrote: [ -> ]It's reasonable to say that drivers who have all been outclassed by Xtreme will also be outclassed by Xtreme' if they are also a Dash driver. X > (Mr, Vl, B, A, Rb, H), so X' > (Mr', Vl', B', A', Rb', H').Hold and Hold’ are driver commonly used for “LAD” type battles.... when you have a good Hold it can out “LAD” Destroy. I don’t know that Xtreme>Hold... kind of like Apple>Orange? (I have been taught it’s actually avoiding precession but old habits die hard. I will incorrectly call it LAD for now)
Vl and Vl’ can be extremely good tornado stallers post “awakening”. Vl’ was in the Asia Championships top 3 deck for that reason just days ago... Again I am not sure how Xtreme’ is better? Are you saying Xtreme is a better tornado staller? A rubber flat?
https://imgur.com/gallery/W8uekUB
This shows Vl’ beating At and Br by spin finish...
(May. 31, 2019 8:19 PM)AirKingNeo Wrote: [ -> ]Hold has been in the winning combo thread at least a few times since release if I remember correctly. Most recently I believe wombat used it to place, there may have been others recently but I can’t remember. I know people who chose to play Hold that own destroy.(May. 31, 2019 7:08 AM)Shindog Wrote: [ -> ]Hold and Hold’ are driver commonly used for “LAD” type battles.... when you have a good Hold it can out “LAD” Destroy. I don’t know that Xtreme>Hold... kind of like Apple>Orange? (I have been taught it’s actually avoiding precession but old habits die hard. I will incorrectly call it LAD for now)
Vl and Vl’ can be extremely good tornado stallers post “awakening”. Vl’ was in the Asia Championships top 3 deck for that reason just days ago... Again I am not sure how Xtreme’ is better? Are you saying Xtreme is a better tornado staller? A rubber flat?
https://imgur.com/gallery/W8uekUB
This shows Vl’ beating At and Br by spin finish...
It was more like Hold doesn't see competitive use while Xtreme does, though Destroy is a better comparison in terms of what job they do.
I have no clue about anything involving Vl/Vl' being used in tornado stalling. In my opinion, the driver is too wide for that to work well, so I'm very confused about how that works fundamentally. My comparison was about Volcanic as an offensive attack driver, which is generally seen as completely out of control (and tall), which is why people use Xtreme instead as their preferred attack driver.