World Beyblade Organization by Fighting Spirits Inc.

I wonder when Hasbro is releasing an acrylic paint set.
I mean... they could make us pay to finish at least the aesthetics of their products. That would be genius.

(Aug. 04, 2021  5:33 PM)Howaitonekon Wrote: [ -> ]I wonder when Hasbro is releasing an acrylic paint set.
I mean... they could make us pay to finish at least the aesthetics of their products. That would be genius.

Hasbro's next step is doing sticker card packs for beyblade, so they do volumes of random stickers making us buy it to complete the hasbro beys

(Jul. 31, 2021  11:22 AM)MagikHorse Wrote: [ -> ]

(Jul. 31, 2021  6:10 AM)Dracieleone Wrote: [ -> ]"Allowing more customization options ruins customizability."

-snip-

I understand where you're coming from in your description, but one thing that's missing is that it really doesn't matter what kind of product Hasbro puts out, people are going to buy it. I live in the New Orleans area. My son and I (i'm 49 years old, lol) have been into Hasbro Beyblades for almost 2 years. One thing has remained consistent over the course of the 2 years - Hasbro can't keep them in stock. Is it the demand?? I don't know. Walmart and Target in my area have multiple slots on their shelves and I have never ever seen them fully stocked. In my area, there are probably 10 Walmarts within a 15 mile radius, and 3 Targets. The majority of the time they are sold out. The Walmart by my home we check every other day, as when they do get some in, they sell out quickly. So my point is that it seems that no matter what quality Hasbro puts on the shelves, as long as they're staying sold out, Hasbro will keep cranking them out. Like Pokemon, Bakugan and others, there is the 'collectability' aspect too, where some people want to collect every single one of them, regardless if the slopes suck, recolor, looks like carp, etc.....

(Aug. 04, 2021  9:05 PM)originalzankye Wrote: [ -> ]

(Aug. 04, 2021  5:33 PM)Howaitonekon Wrote: [ -> ]I wonder when Hasbro is releasing an acrylic paint set.
I mean... they could make us pay to finish at least the aesthetics of their products. That would be genius.

Hasbro's next step is doing sticker card packs for beyblade, so they do volumes of random stickers making us buy it to complete the hasbro beys

And they would start with Turbo Beyblades. The first volume would have only 3 sticker options. It will have poor adhesive and will be cut wrong, as well, and then stop after like Wave 3 due to poor sales.

(Aug. 04, 2021  6:40 AM)MagikHorse Wrote: [ -> ]Hasbro bladers don't have to buy into this gimmick at all you know. Advertising it might make it more enticing, but Hasbro Pro is also relatively more expensive than the mainline and would make this gimmick undesirable for a buyer on an allowance. For them you're literally just giving them a less useful product since by your own admission you're still weakening the slopes for OG Hasbro drivers at all and giving them less value unless they specifically buy into the TT/Pro cross-compatibility. Maybe they just like the driver gimmicks and don't care about Pro either, you're just screwing them over too. Odds seem high that you're screwing over more people than you're ever helping by doing this.

It's only more expensive because Hasbro wasted their money and resources on gimping the beys for maximum profit.  If they had stuck with the Takara TOMY molds. like they should've, there wouldn't be any issues.  "Maybe they just like the driver"?  Well, maybe someone just prefers transparent plastic over opaque.  

Quote:[font="Source Sans Pro", Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]And to the disk point... I really don't see the relevance of bringing this up at all. Like, both brands did the same things with their disks during that span of the line, and for the Evolution block Hasbro was still sticking really close to TT and not cheaping out as badly as they have been in recent times with their hollowed out GT disks, lighter Wheel disk, these cheap and tiny double chassis disks... It sort of looks like you're not keeping up with the changing times, or else trying to make an argument about why disks should never be powercrept in a discussion about layer slopes for some reason. It just seems totally off-base, either misguided or a desperate attempt to pin something somewhere.[/font]

You complain about mainline beys with Pro Series compatibility rendering old mainline drivers obsolete, but Hasbro and Takara TOMY already do this every year by releasing new beys with new parts that, more often than not, end up replacing the old parts, on a competitive level.

Quote:[font="Source Sans Pro", Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif] don't think you have a clue how much Pro costs. Pro costs $20 a piece, more expensive than their mainline by far. I can find a TT Zwei Longinus on eBay mostly between $18-$23, a very similar price point (when you exclude the wild $13 and $28 outliers that really don't fit in). You're overblowing the prices in your favor, and it's not hard to find better deals with just a little looking around. The fact that they're local is the only real draw I can see here, but given the general wear issues of Hasbro's Pro Series until the latest wave I also don't trust their quality as much either. It still is utterly useless without Pro Series in your pocket, and many kids on a limited allowance may not want to buy into Pro Series' high price tag (or TT's either, for that matter). At best it's still not useful to a fair chunk of the target audience.[/font]

See my first response.  Back in the Metal Fight days, 7 years ago, Hasbro sold Legends Hyperblades(4D System) for $9.99 a piece.  Your comments about finding better deals on Takara TOMY beys is also a bit dishonest.  Takara TOMY sells Vanish Fafnir for $15.07, on their site.  Now, they don't ship overseas, but the shipping price from Japan to the US, at the cheapest(surface mail), would land you at $31.51.  Of course, this isn't much of an issue if you're buying secondhand.

Quote:[font="Source Sans Pro", Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]For earlier releases it was mostly just this (though some layers like Odax, Nepstrius, Wyvron, Wyvron W2, and Valtryek V2 had additional modifications in their Hasbro release, mostly more aggressive slopes or an extra type of reinforcement), but from GT on they had to make extra changes too to fuse the layer weights to them and redo the chip system. This carried on to Sparking as well, and looks to be totally revamped for DB/QuadDrive too. You don't seem to understand why, so I'll explain it: [/font][font="Source Sans Pro", Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]Cheaper layers that use less material net greater profits, and that can offset the costs of the changed molds.[/font][font="Source Sans Pro", Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif] Excluding the vast majority of metal from their layers in particular saves a ton of money, as metal is pricier than plastic. Since they're doing that already might as well do some other changes since you're going to be creating an entirely new mold anyways, such as their easily assembled two-piece layer system that was carried over between GT and Sparking. Like, that design is so simple and easy I can't imagine it took them any real time or resources at all to do it, and once it's been done once it's easy to copy/paste to everything else too.[/font]

Way to miss the point the point, there; especially when you say stuff like "[font="Source Sans Pro", Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]Since they're doing that already might as well do some other changes since you're going to be creating an entirely new mold anyways".  If Hasbro can juggle two separate Beyblade series and still have money left over to create new molds to support their mainline, then the cost it would take for them to slightly tweak the slopes for a new wave of beys would be no more expensive than what they're already doing.[/font]

Quote:[font="Source Sans Pro", Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]Where is this "sweet spot" then? If you don't make it as thin as TT/Pro designs you'll squeeze it too hard and damage the bey when you equip TT/Pro drivers, and you'll destroy it quickly. You can only make it marginally thicker at best (which will already make non-' TT/Pro drivers tighter than they should be, more like ' drivers which would already damage their softer plastic more and create a wearing issue), and at that point OG Hasbro drivers are too loose to really matter. This is a last ditch effort to sound like you know what you're doing, but [/font][font="Source Sans Pro", Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]unless you can actually provide a working model to prove it your claim is unbelievable from logic alone, because that logic dictates that either they will be breakable/have wear issues or they will make the vast pool of older Hasbro drivers unfeasibly loose.[/font][font="Source Sans Pro", Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif] There's simply not enough wiggle room in these design for this to be workable, and it still sacrifices the older systems for this new one way late into their line even if it did function.[/font]

[font="Source Sans Pro", Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]By doing this you're still hurting a significant amount of players to satisfy some niche urge of others. I can't condone that decision, especially not this late into the line.[/font]

I literally drew up an image of it that you completely ignored.  You also don't seem to realize how thick those walls actually are.  The walls of the layer that the slopes are on are about 2.5mm thick.  You take about .5 or maybe 1mm off the top, then adjust the angle of the slopes accordingly.  Unfortunate, I don't have a 3-D printer, so I can't physically make a prototype.  However, the drawing is right there, if anyone wants to give it a shot.

---

(Aug. 04, 2021  5:33 PM)Howaitonekon Wrote: [ -> ]I wonder when Hasbro is releasing an acrylic paint set.
I mean... they could make us pay to finish at least the aesthetics of their products. That would be genius.

You could just buy some enamel paint.

(Aug. 05, 2021  1:05 AM)Dracieleone Wrote: [ -> ]It's only more expensive because Hasbro wasted their money and resources on gimping the beys for maximum profit.  If they had stuck with the Takara TOMY molds. like they should've, there wouldn't be any issues.  "Maybe they just like the driver"?  Well, maybe someone just prefers transparent plastic over opaque.

Hasbro stuff is more expensive because... they cheap out? You're gonna have to explain that one to me man. Like, if you spend fewer resources making something you'll end up making more money off of it long-term, even if you lose in the short term by making a new mold. Honestly the biggest reason why Beyblade is so profitable for Hasbro is because they're so hollowed out and cheap. Using the same TT molds would mean prices would need to rise to continue making a profit from each season, much the same way that TT bey prices have gradually increased over time.

As to the driver thing, the original quote was "Maybe they just like the driver gimmicks", referring to things like Speedstorm and Hypersphere. If you didn't cut off my sentence prematurely in that quote this would've made perfect sense. If you're gonna try to make counterpoints, make sure you've read the full sentence instead of cutting them off in the middle of their defining segments. Bad argument, try reading my post next time.

(Aug. 05, 2021  1:05 AM)Dracieleone Wrote: [ -> ]You complain about mainline beys with Pro Series compatibility rendering old mainline drivers obsolete, but Hasbro and Takara TOMY already do this every year by releasing new beys with new parts that, more often than not, end up replacing the old parts, on a competitive level.

No wonder why this felt off topic, you totally and entirely misunderstood my point and took a total U-Turn with it I wasn't expecting. I'm saying that by giving them Pro Series compatibility older Hasbro mainline drivers do not function correctly (in this case they are way too loose), and thus cannot be used as intended. It has nothing at all to do with the competitive strengths of the part as much as it is making everything else prior virtually unusable at all. In that regard you're basically allowing Pro/TT at the cost of the unusability of every other Hasbro mainline part, which is not a worthy sacrifice this late in.

Also consider the fact that Hasbro absolutely has not been outclassing old designs with its new ones. Honestly the entire Hasbro mainline is weaker now than it was during Evolution by a rather significant margin (Drain Fafnir and Fafnir F3 both hard outclass Hasbro's Mirage wheel for instance), with only a small handful of parts that could even be seriously considered for Burst Limited. TT has still been going up in power, but Hasbro's trend for the last few years has been nerfing everything so hard that they've been going backwards in power level instead. You don't even understand that much. There's also still a few mainstays that TT still has hanging around, especially in rubber attack drivers (which basically never go out of style, let's be honest here), Atomic, and the recurring champion of Bearing come back from the dead to haunt the metagame once more.

(Aug. 05, 2021  1:05 AM)Dracieleone Wrote: [ -> ]See my first response.  Back in the Metal Fight days, 7 years ago, Hasbro sold Legends Hyperblades(4D System) for $9.99 a piece.  Your comments about finding better deals on Takara TOMY beys is also a bit dishonest.  Takara TOMY sells Vanish Fafnir for $15.07, on their site.  Now, they don't ship overseas, but the shipping price from Japan to the US, at the cheapest(surface mail), would land you at $31.51.  Of course, this isn't much of an issue if you're buying secondhand.

We're getting nowhere with this line at all, since I've seen better prices than you have and you're not willing to put any effort into finding better available prices. I'll tell you now that basically nobody overseas uses the official TT shop for their things because better prices can be found elsewhere, and even then it doesn't address the quality differences either. TT's harder plastics still come with an increase in durability that Pro Series doesn't quite have, so they're not a direct 1:1 comparison even if you do want to argue that their prices are higher. Also consider the fact that Pro Series beys have not reached the DB system yet means that price comparing Pro with DB is itself not a fair comparison to make (this is why I looked on eBay for something which was available in Pro Series too: Zwei Longinus), and it's possible that Hasbro may eventually need to crank up the prices to keep making a profit off of them once beys start to get that heavy and use that much material.

All in all this part of the argument is meaningless to either side, the prices are generally very similar if you know where to get things and that's about all there is to say about it. No reason to keep bickering over nuance. Bringing up old MFB prices is also meaningless and just totally irrelevant, inflation has occurred since then and TT Burst beys are significantly heavier than the 4D system was anyways. Once again not a 1:1 comparison at all.

(Aug. 05, 2021  1:05 AM)Dracieleone Wrote: [ -> ]Way to miss the point the point, there; especially when you say stuff like "Since they're doing that already might as well do some other changes since you're going to be creating an entirely new mold anyways".  If Hasbro can juggle two separate Beyblade series and still have money left over to create new molds to support their mainline, then the cost it would take for them to slightly tweak the slopes for a new wave of beys would be no more expensive than what they're already doing.

Except this ignores that it affects how the line performs significantly and makes their older drivers too loose to be usable. You simply do not decide to make over 95% of your driver releases incredibly loose just so people can use the remaining 5%. You say I'm missing the point, but you too are missing an even bigger point I've been repeating all throughout every single post. Hell, it's the biggest point there is and you've been ignoring it everywhere because you can't believe your design idea can fail... but more on that below as I go over exactly what you're really proposing.

(Aug. 05, 2021  1:05 AM)Dracieleone Wrote: [ -> ]I literally drew up an image of it that you completely ignored.  You also don't seem to realize how thick those walls actually are.  The walls of the layer that the slopes are on are about 2.5mm thick.  You take about .5 or maybe 1mm off the top, then adjust the angle of the slopes accordingly.  Unfortunate, I don't have a 3-D printer, so I can't physically make a prototype.  However, the drawing is right there, if anyone wants to give it a shot.

Oh, I saw that image alright. Your image lacks any sense of scaling and thus fails to actually show what you mean accurately... if that even mattered at all. It shows the thickness of a current Hasbro mainline driver, but without knowing how thick a TT/Pro driver is in comparison or any measurements that might help me figure that out I can't judge its usefulness at all, which means all I can sit back on is the very basic physics I already know, the exact thing I've been leaning on as my reasoning for why this idea isn't good. That aside a drawing does not prove that it works, and I still believe that this overall creates a more negative experience for Hasbro mainline collectors and for the average kid.

Let's break it down for a moment, just with physics. To give us a proper sense of scale let's place the thickness of the slope on a scale from 1-5, with 1 being "TT/Pro thin" and 5 being "Hasbro mainline thick". 3 is exactly in the middle of these two extremes, with 2 and 4 being halfway between this midpoint and their relevant extreme. In the end you get 5 different thicknesses, all equidistant relative to one another. Now let's look at how the drivers fit on each.



It's simple to see what would happen for these different thicknesses: The thinner it is to fit TT/Pro drivers on, the looser all the other Hasbro drivers get until they're unusably loose. On the flipside the thicker the layer slopes get, the heavier the wear and damage caused by using Pro/TT drivers. Any attempt to bolster the usability of one driver type will hurt the other, and this is inescapable without making two different sets of slopes or an adjustable thickness slope. Of course both of those alternate options drive up costs and possibly create more small parts, and the latter just sounds fragile given Hasbro's cheap plastic and the necessarily thin and small components needed for something like that. I don't really think either of those are desirable at all.

So I ask you once again: where is this balance best placed then? Your picture tells me jack all, and your words haven't explained where this magical balancing point is either, so all I can do is ask yet again for a proper answer. Go ahead. I'm waiting.

To answer it myself: 4 doesn't really make TT/Pro compatible at all, you're still gonna break the layers in no time that way and it's little better than what we have already. 1-2 leaves the older Hasbro stuff way too loose to really be usable, and thus makes all your new layers almost impossible to consider for Hypersphere stadiums, any other gimmick driver, or the older stuff (which as I've said above is the vast majority of Hasbro's competitive drivers). 3 is still going to break really quickly and still leaves non-TT/Pro drivers in the dust. Not a single option here looks even remotely desirable, short of either going for 1 or 5. 1 makes no sense, you'd essentially be making your mainline go Pro Series and disconnect it from the rest of the mainline drivers. 5, a.k.a. keeping it as it is, is the only really reasonable choice to stay with to prevent from alienating your brand from itself.

The fact that you guys have the time to write essays for replies to an argument makes me laugh. There is a plain and simple fact, Hasbro will not change their slopes, and they will not engineer to make their layers TT compatible. As for their cheapening, as MagikHorse said, that's why they sell. They are easy to get and are, well, at this point, considered as almost another game. Sure, its not the same. It never was meant to be. Hasbro's beyblade series are different, and if people can't respect that, then you shouldn't complain.

They have pro series which allows more customization, and more "authentic Japanese tops" availability. Not everyone is privileged with Takara Tomy. Hasbro is providing its own Beyblade game. These marks such as slopes, high drivers, stadiums, are all parts of their own style.

I am sick of hearing complaints with cheapening out, signature abilities, and so on. Hasbro can't be cheapened if it was never meant to be like Takara Tomy.

(Aug. 05, 2021  4:48 AM)JCE_13 Wrote: [ -> ]The fact that you guys have the time to write essays for replies to an argument makes me laugh. There is a plain and simple fact, Hasbro will not change their slopes, and they will not engineer to make their layers TT compatible. As for their cheapening, as MagikHorse said, that's why they sell. They are easy to get and are, well, at this point, considered as almost another game. Sure, its not the same. It never was meant to be. Hasbro's beyblade series are different, and if people can't respect that, then you shouldn't complain.

Well this is a forum, where posts are supposed to be meaningful. Not posts like “hasbruh stinky change slopes” or “hasbruh is too deep in cant change”.

People want their points to be clear and detailed. As anyone would.

(Aug. 05, 2021  4:54 AM)CheetoBlader Wrote: [ -> ]

(Aug. 05, 2021  4:48 AM)JCE_13 Wrote: [ -> ]The fact that you guys have the time to write essays for replies to an argument makes me laugh. There is a plain and simple fact, Hasbro will not change their slopes, and they will not engineer to make their layers TT compatible. As for their cheapening, as MagikHorse said, that's why they sell. They are easy to get and are, well, at this point, considered as almost another game. Sure, its not the same. It never was meant to be. Hasbro's beyblade series are different, and if people can't respect that, then you shouldn't complain.

Well this is a forum, where posts are supposed to be meaningful. Not posts like “hasbruh stinky change slopes” or “hasbruh is too deep in cant change”.

People want their points to be clear and detailed. As anyone would.

I know, I know. It's just kinda funny how long some of these are lol

(Aug. 05, 2021  4:54 AM)CheetoBlader Wrote: [ -> ]

(Aug. 05, 2021  4:48 AM)JCE_13 Wrote: [ -> ]The fact that you guys have the time to write essays for replies to an argument makes me laugh. There is a plain and simple fact, Hasbro will not change their slopes, and they will not engineer to make their layers TT compatible. As for their cheapening, as MagikHorse said, that's why they sell. They are easy to get and are, well, at this point, considered as almost another game. Sure, its not the same. It never was meant to be. Hasbro's beyblade series are different, and if people can't respect that, then you shouldn't complain.

Well this is a forum, where posts are supposed to be meaningful. Not posts like “hasbruh stinky change slopes” or “hasbruh is too deep in cant change”.

People want their points to be clear and detailed. As anyone would.

For as much as I appreciate this stance, I also feel like I wind up going overboard sometimes, eheheh. Still, there's a lot of things that just got read totally wrong, and I don't like a ton of misconceptions sitting around.

Phew! This debate has continued for quite the time.  What I don't understand is that why would Hasbro want to suddenly change slope design for no reason, especially since they have made an excusive pro series just for the "authentic Japanese beyblade fans". The cost of redesigning slopes is unnecessary especially from a business view point. 

What is the end goal for them? If they did introduced your idea; it would negate the point of the pro series (in introducing the teeth) in the first place. What is the point of introducing redesigned slopes in the first place if they could just produce the same drivers of pro series in the normal line. Then as Magik has elaborated; the redesigned slopes may not even work properly. 
 
In short; it makes zero sense for them to make redesigned slopes from a business view point.

Someone found Hollow Doomscizor D6 at Walmart

(Aug. 05, 2021  4:07 AM)MagikHorse Wrote: [ -> ]Hasbro stuff is more expensive because... they cheap out? You're gonna have to explain that one to me man. Like, if you spend fewer resources making something you'll end up making more money off of it long-term, even if you lose in the short term by making a new mold. Honestly the biggest reason why Beyblade is so profitable for Hasbro is because they're so hollowed out and cheap. Using the same TT molds would mean prices would need to rise to continue making a profit from each season, much the same way that TT bey prices have gradually increased over time.

PRO SERIES IS MORE EXPENSIVE.  Also, if it's so profitable for Hasbro, why does the Pro Series even exist?

Quote:[font="Source Sans Pro", Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]As to the driver thing, the original quote was "Maybe they just like the driver [/font][font="Source Sans Pro", Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]gimmicks[/font][font="Source Sans Pro", Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]", referring to things like Speedstorm and Hypersphere. If you didn't cut off my sentence prematurely in that quote this would've made perfect sense. If you're gonna try to make counterpoints, make sure you've read the full sentence instead of cutting them off in the middle of their defining segments. Bad argument, try reading my post next time.[/font]

I was implying that your argument, here, is a two-way street.  The fact that you were referring to "gimmicks" doesn't matter.

Quote:[font="Source Sans Pro", Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]No wonder why this felt off topic, you totally and entirely misunderstood my point and took a total U-Turn with it I wasn't expecting. I'm saying that by giving them Pro Series compatibility older Hasbro mainline drivers do not function correctly (in this case they are way too loose), and thus cannot be used as intended. It has nothing at all to do with the competitive strengths of the part as much as it is making everything else prior virtually unusable at all. In that regard you're basically allowing Pro/TT at the cost of the unusability of every other Hasbro mainline part, which is not a worthy sacrifice this late in.[/font]

Except that's not the case.  The drivers would still function as intended, despite the slightly more extra wiggle room.  It's not going to magically take away all friction from the old drivers.  Competitive strength has nothing to do with this, you say?  You're talking about old drivers being rendered unusable, if implemented, but if you're a casual blader who just wants to see tops explode, why would you care?  Going into a competitive environment is the only time you'd actually care about something like this.

Quote:[font="Source Sans Pro", Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]Also consider the fact that Hasbro absolutely has not been outclassing old designs with its new ones. Honestly the entire Hasbro mainline is weaker now than it was during Evolution by a rather significant margin (Drain Fafnir and Fafnir F3 both hard outclass Hasbro's Mirage wheel for instance), with only a small handful of parts that could even be seriously considered for Burst Limited. TT has still been going up in power, but Hasbro's trend for the last few years has been nerfing everything so hard that they've been going backwards in power level instead. [/font]

This is an exception, not the rule.  The reason for these nerfs, in its own environment, is simply that Hasbro just doesn't care.  They've turned their main line into an ecosystem where kids have very little choice in buying anything but the mainline stuff.  Hasbro essentially has a regional monopoly on Beyblade, and don't have any real incentive to try any harder.  That, or they're slowly shifting more toward the Pro Series stuff.

Quote:[font="Source Sans Pro", Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]We're getting nowhere with this line at all, since I've seen better prices than you have and you're not willing to put any effort into finding better available prices. I'll tell you now that basically nobody overseas uses the official TT shop for their things because better prices can be found elsewhere, and even then it doesn't address the quality differences either. TT's harder plastics still come with an increase in durability that Pro Series doesn't quite have, so they're not a direct 1:1 comparison even if you do want to argue that their prices are higher. Also consider the fact that Pro Series beys have not reached the DB system yet means that price comparing Pro with DB is itself not a fair comparison to make (this is why I looked on eBay for something which was available in Pro Series too: Zwei Longinus), and it's possible that Hasbro may eventually need to crank up the prices to keep making a profit off of them once beys start to get that heavy and use that much material.[/font]

You missed the point.  Your argument, here, was that everyone would automatically just import parts from Takara TOMY for parts if the main line was compatible with the Pro Series(which is a ridiculous statement), instead of paying for the cheaper and more convenient Pro Series beys.  Maybe double the price ,might've been an exaggeration, but you were the one who brought up how expensive the Pro Series is(which is due to the fact that they are spending more money to support two Beyblade lines, instead of just one).

Quote:[font="Source Sans Pro", Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]All in all this part of the argument is meaningless to either side, the prices are generally very similar if you know where to get things and that's about all there is to say about it. No reason to keep bickering over nuance. Bringing up old MFB prices is also meaningless and just totally irrelevant, inflation has occurred since then and TT Burst beys are significantly heavier than the 4D system was anyways. Once again not a 1:1 comparison at all.[/font]

I brought up the mfb Hyperblades because that was a similar situation to the Pro Series.  You mention inflation, but that's not how it works.  $10 does not become $20 in seven years.  Adjusted for inflation, $10 back then is $11.48, now.  Again, if Hasbro had did what used to do, and just repackage Takara TOMY beys(with only minor deviations), we'd have mainline Pro Series-quality beys for $12 to $15, at most.

Quote:[font="Source Sans Pro", Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]It's simple to see what would happen for these different thicknesses: The thinner it is to fit TT/Pro drivers on, the looser all the other Hasbro drivers get until they're unusably loose. On the flipside the thicker the layer slopes get, the heavier the wear and damage caused by using Pro/TT drivers. [/font][font="Source Sans Pro", Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]Any attempt to bolster the usability of one driver type will hurt the other, and this is inescapable without making two different sets of slopes or an adjustable thickness slope.[/font][font="Source Sans Pro", Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif] Of course both of those alternate options drive up costs and possibly create more small parts, and the latter just [/font][font="Source Sans Pro", Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]sounds[/font][font="Source Sans Pro", Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif] fragile given Hasbro's cheap plastic and the necessarily thin and small components needed for something like that. I don't really think either of those are desirable at all.[/font]

Your problem is that you're only thinking about the change in the thickness of the wall and not factoring how the slopes would be affected by this, and adjusting the slopes accordingly.  Hasbro layers don't all have the same slopes, you know?
Additionally, and coincidently, Takara TOMY recently did make a beyblade whose dynamite core would be a perfect starting point for this kind of experiment; Roar Bahamut.

---

(Aug. 05, 2021  6:42 AM)Vtryuga Wrote: [ -> ]Phew! This debate has continued for quite the time.  What I don't understand is that why would Hasbro want to suddenly change slope design for no reason, especially since they have made an excusive pro series just for the "authentic Japanese beyblade fans". The cost of redesigning slopes is unnecessary especially from a business view point. 

What is the end goal for them? If they did introduced your idea; it would negate the point of the pro series (in introducing the teeth) in the first place. What is the point of introducing redesigned slopes in the first place if they could just produce the same drivers of pro series in the normal line. Then as Magik has elaborated; the redesigned slopes may not even work properly. 
 
In short; it makes zero sense for them to make redesigned slopes from a business view point.

It would allow more driver options for their exclusive layers without them having to completely redesign new drivers exclusively for them, for one.

(Aug. 05, 2021  8:09 AM)SprigganGod59 Wrote: [ -> ]Someone found Hollow Doomscizor D6 at Walmart

Well I guess now it really is HOLLOW deathscyther😂 anyways I hope the slopes are good, might pick this up because of the fact that it shouldn't be unbalanced. a balanced deathscyther should be interesting to see imo

(Aug. 05, 2021  8:58 AM)Dracieleone Wrote: [ -> ]PRO SERIES IS MORE EXPENSIVE.  Also, if it's so profitable for Hasbro, why does the Pro Series even exist?

I don't know why you're shouting that at me. Your original "It's only more expensive because Hasbro wasted their money and resources on gimping the beys for maximum profit." quote makes sense only for the mainline, not the relatively ungimped Pro Series... but somehow this is about that now? I don't understand that at all.

Regardless Pro Series likely exists because of one or two different reasons: either they got sick and tired of people complaining about how unusable their stuff is in tournaments, or they decided to branch out and cover the more competitive market of their own accord. Either way it looks like it could possibly be a reaction to the WBO tournaments driving them to a business decision to stop the gap some, finally realizing that they need something if they wanted back into the competitive player market.

(Aug. 05, 2021  8:58 AM)Dracieleone Wrote: [ -> ]I was implying that your argument, here, is a two-way street.  The fact that you were referring to "gimmicks" doesn't matter.

I'm not buying this "two way street" thing at all. You're gonna have to explain really, really well how their marketable gimmicks are somehow less important than standard drivers with no marketable attributes to them at all.

The implication was still unreadable, and the cutting off of my sentence makes you look inattentive and like you don't have a clue what you're doing.

(Aug. 05, 2021  8:58 AM)Dracieleone Wrote: [ -> ]Except that's not the case.  The drivers would still function as intended, despite the slightly more extra wiggle room.  It's not going to magically take away all friction from the old drivers.  Competitive strength has nothing to do with this, you say?  You're talking about old drivers being rendered unusable, if implemented, but if you're a casual blader who just wants to see tops explode, why would you care?  Going into a competitive environment is the only time you'd actually care about something like this.

Sigh. The physics does not work out as you think it does. Until this sinks into your head, you will likely continue to spout off nonsense as some sort of fact. More on that below.

As to your "this only matters for competitive" line of baloney... maybe you just want to use the rest of your mainline collection without being so loose that TT's Bearing starts to look good and don't care about Pro? That alone is a reason to deny all of this, and yet you've still never suitably addressed this at all short of saying "my idea works, trust me"... which is really not an argument or rooted in sound physics.

(Aug. 05, 2021  8:58 AM)Dracieleone Wrote: [ -> ]This is an exception, not the rule.  The reason for these nerfs, in its own environment, is simply that Hasbro just doesn't care.  They've turned their main line into an ecosystem where kids have very little choice in buying anything but the mainline stuff.  Hasbro essentially has a regional monopoly on Beyblade, and don't have any real incentive to try any harder.  That, or they're slowly shifting more toward the Pro Series stuff.

Let me get this straight, you're saying that the reason Hasbro is getting weaker over time is because they don't care? Isn't this admitting that the 95% of releases I'm bringing up are reverse power creeping like I was just saying... and then saying that's the exception to my rule? You're literally confirming what I said as fact and then trying to say I'm wrong because of it.

So, um, thanks for contradicting yourself and through it proving that I'm right. I don't even have to argue this, you broke your own argument better than I could have.

With that much being said, if they "don't have any real incentive to try any harder", why would they bother trying to do this anyways? Doesn't this lack of caring give them continued reason to not care about adding TT/Pro compatibility to the mainline?

(Aug. 05, 2021  8:58 AM)Dracieleone Wrote: [ -> ]You missed the point.  Your argument, here, was that everyone would automatically just import parts from Takara TOMY for parts if the main line was compatible with the Pro Series(which is a ridiculous statement), instead of paying for the cheaper and more convenient Pro Series beys.  Maybe double the price ,might've been an exaggeration, but you were the one who brought up how expensive the Pro Series is(which is due to the fact that they are spending more money to support two Beyblade lines, instead of just one).

Pro is more convenient, yes. I'd be a fool to try and deny that. Pro is also more prone to wearing down as well. If people heard that the TT stuff didn't and the prices are similar enough (and they really do range from slightly cheaper to mildly pricier, short of perhaps a few random booster confirms. Those tend to be pricier on principle) you'd still likely drag some attention over there. That's also on top of the fact that Pro Series still offers very little unique drivers, which means realistic TT compatibility nets you more options that Pro ever will.

And no, Pro isn't more expensive than the mainline because "they are spending more money to support two Beyblade lines, instead of just one". If it was something like that the mainline prices would start rising too. No, Pro Series is more expensive to buy because it is more expensive to make because it takes more materials. It is as simple as that. Why they're as expensive as they are given your point below I can only take guesses at, but the general basis behind it is clear.

(Aug. 05, 2021  8:58 AM)Dracieleone Wrote: [ -> ]I brought up the mfb Hyperblades because that was a similar situation to the Pro Series.  You mention inflation, but that's not how it works.  $10 does not become $20 in seven years.  Adjusted for inflation, $10 back then is $11.48, now.  Again, if Hasbro had did what used to do, and just repackage Takara TOMY beys(with only minor deviations), we'd have mainline Pro Series-quality beys for $12 to $15, at most.

You'd expect that, though I also recall them having some money troubles since the MFB era that may necessitate trying to increase profits to overcome pitfalls in other areas, think that simply being "Pro" is enough to advertise and entice people to them with a higher price tag, or maybe it's to offset the costs of shipping TT molds over, or heck maybe it's something TT mandated to prevent Hasbro Pro from becoming too big of a lure in the Japanese market. It's really hard to say for sure, and I don't think it matters anyways short of Hasbro wanting to be greedier and make more per sale (unless it's TT behind it, of course).

Hasbro definitely doesn't want the mainline to be that expensive though, that's for sure.

(Aug. 05, 2021  8:58 AM)Dracieleone Wrote: [ -> ]Your problem is that you're only thinking about the change in the thickness of the wall and not factoring how the slopes would be affected by this, and adjusting the slopes accordingly.  Hasbro layers don't all have the same slopes, you know?
Additionally, and coincidently, Takara TOMY recently did make a beyblade whose dynamite core would be a perfect starting point for this kind of experiment; Roar Bahamut.

The thickness of the walls is the major piece that determines if a driver fits properly, not the slopes. The slopes are the methods of adjusting that resistance for fine tuning burst resistance for specific parts, for instance making Sphinx and Solar Sphinx stupidly loose because their slopes go deep so quickly while other slopes are tighter like Joker, Valtryek, the red Achilles, and the second mold of Genesis chip from Eclipse... but it's still just a fine tuning device, not the main fit. Even if the slopes were perfectly flat, sticking a Hasbro driver on a TT thickness wall will still be unusably loose. The only way to improve their fit would be to make the walls thicker, but then TT/HasPro starts to deal damage as I've mentioned. In short, the slopes do not play a big enough impact to save the fit. You say my problem is not factoring it in, but your problem is that you're factoring it in as some sort of saving grace for the idea when it's not even close. Even you said they're not all the same, which means they'd have to find ways to make them different from each other too so you can't adjust them by much anyways or else everything becomes the exact same. The more you try to push this "new slope" idea, the more apparent it is to all of us here that this does not work suitably, and anything compatible enough with TT/Pro systems will not work properly for older Hasbro mainline drivers. As I said last time they have no reason to split the mainline's compatibility with other mainline products that way, so the idea is a no-go.

Roar Bahamut's core also fails as a starting point in any attempt, since its burst resistance is entirely based on the rubber stoppers. Unless you want to suggest every Hasbro release from this point on is Pro compatible and relies solely on rubber burst stoppers to hold them together, this doesn't really come out to anything. That idea's fairly stupid to begin with since the Hasbro mainline tends to avoid rubber as much as possible, with even several Fafnirs like Wizard and Geist having their rubber stripped out of them on top of Judgement and Lord. Suddenly making everything rely on rubber burst stoppers also gets in the way of things like Spriggan's dual spin as well, making it unviable there. Still a better idea than your "new slopes" idea, but... still not good.

(Aug. 05, 2021  8:58 AM)Dracieleone Wrote: [ -> ]

(Aug. 05, 2021  6:42 AM)Vtryuga Wrote: [ -> ]Phew! This debate has continued for quite the time.  What I don't understand is that why would Hasbro want to suddenly change slope design for no reason, especially since they have made an excusive pro series just for the "authentic Japanese beyblade fans". The cost of redesigning slopes is unnecessary especially from a business view point. 

What is the end goal for them? If they did introduced your idea; it would negate the point of the pro series (in introducing the teeth) in the first place. What is the point of introducing redesigned slopes in the first place if they could just produce the same drivers of pro series in the normal line. Then as Magik has elaborated; the redesigned slopes may not even work properly. 
 
In short; it makes zero sense for them to make redesigned slopes from a business view point.

It would allow more driver options for their exclusive layers without them having to completely redesign new drivers exclusively for them, for one.

Did you ever consider that keeping them seperate might be the goal? The mainline sells on driver gimmicks and having fun. Pro Series sells on performance. One is built cheap for casuals, the other built tough for competitors. They don't aim for the same audience, and there's very little overlap between the two. Those who want one probably don't want to buy the other very much (to which I can attest to. I've never considered Pro for a moment since I already own every single TT release that isn't Perseus). Yes, it's more options, but if that's not enticing to either target audience then why bother with it? It's wasted effort at that point.

Ok so in other talk hoping EB Games in Canada gets Hollow next week since they shifted the date, really can't wait to see how it is in person hope it feels tight.

Sadly I've heard little good about Hasbro Hollow, but still... maybe it'll come around during Pro and be decent at last?

(Aug. 05, 2021  7:34 PM)MagikHorse Wrote: [ -> ][font="Source Sans Pro", Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]I don't know why you're shouting that at me, you were saying that their releases were hollow and thus referring to the mainline, but your original "It's only more expensive because Hasbro wasted their money and resources on gimping the beys for maximum profit." quote makes sense only for the mainline, not Pro Series.[/font]

I'm not shouting, I'm emphazising.  You said Pro Series is relatively more expensive, and I explained why they are such.

Quote:[font="Source Sans Pro", Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]Regardless Pro Series likely exists because they got sick and tired of people complaining about how unusable their stuff is in tournaments honestly.[/font]

And why is that?

Quote:[font="Source Sans Pro", Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]I'm not buying this "two way street" thing at all. You're gonna have to explain really, really well how their marketable gimmicks are somehow less important than standard drivers with no marketable attributes to them at all.[/font]

You said "[font="Source Sans Pro", Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]Maybe they just like the driver gimmicks and don't care about Pro either[/font]".  This doesn't only work one way.  People have different preferences.

Quote:[font="Source Sans Pro", Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]The implication was still unreadable, and the cutting off of my sentence makes you look inattentive and like you don't have a clue what you're doing.[/font]

I do this to be concise.  None of the information you present that I cut out is important/redundant, so I don't include it.  Also, if really care enough about that, they can go back and read it for themselves.

Quote:As to your "this only matters for competitive" line of baloney... maybe you just want to use the rest of your mainline collection without being so loose that TT's Bearing starts to look good and don't care about Pro? That alone is a reason to deny all of this, and yet you've still never suitably addressed this at all short of saying "my idea works, trust me"... which is really not an argument or rooted in sound physics.

Again, on a casual level, Hasbro's mainline layers would still have enough friction to hold themselves together.  More on that, later.

Quote:[font="Source Sans Pro", Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]Let me get this straight, you're saying that the reason Hasbro is getting weaker over time is because they don't care? Isn't this admitting that the 95% of releases I'm bringing up are reverse power creeping like I was just saying... and then saying that's the exception to my rule? You're literally confirming what I said as fact and then trying to say I'm wrong because of it.[/font]

I said this is an EXCEPTION.  This may or may not be true, for Hasbro's Burst, but it was certainly true for the majority of the Beyblade franchise.  I'm certain that your 95% remark is hyperbole, but I'm just technically giving you this because I can't be asked to test out every current Hasbro mainline release.

Quote:[font="Source Sans Pro", Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]With that much being said, if they "don't have any real incentive to try any harder", why would they bother trying to do this anyways? Doesn't this lack of caring give them continued reason to not care about adding TT/Pro compatibility to the mainline?[/font]

True, but it won't last.  You can only poke the bear so much.  You even answer your own question, here.

Quote:Pro is more convenient, yes. I'd be a fool to try and deny that. Pro is also more prone to wearing down as well. If people heard that the TT stuff didn't and the prices are similar enough (and they really do range from slightly cheaper to mildly pricier, short of perhaps a few random booster confirms. Those tend to be pricier on principle) you'd still likely drag some attention over there. That's also on top of the fact that Pro Series still offers very little unique drivers, which means realistic TT compatibility nets you more options that Pro ever will.

Quote:[font="Source Sans Pro", Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]And no, Pro isn't more expensive than the mainline because "they are spending more money to support two Beyblade lines, instead of just one". If it was something like that the mainline prices would start rising too.[/font]

Interesting point.  Let's take a look at a previous statement you said.

Quote:At the very least they have to change the teeth into their slopes, which results in new molds being produced for Hasbro use (you can't just change a piece of a mold out for another). The same is true for drivers as well, once again due to the differences in their systems and the incompatibilities I've already pointed out (though they can possibly just replace the top piece of those instead of redoing the whole thing).

Hasbro makes two molds different from Takara TOMY's; one for the layer and one for the driver.  Turbo comes along, and with the introduction of Slingshock, they make two brand new molds for their exclusive parts; the Slingshock drivers, and all those exclusive discs.  Rise comes, and this is repeated with new molds for the chips and Hypersphere drivers.  With surge, they make an additional mold for its chips, as well as new molds for the Speedstorm drivers.  With those Speedstorm drivers, some of them have an additional mold made for metal variants. The QuadDrive system is coming up, and it's looking to, once again, add a bunch of new molds to Hasbro's already large collection.  Each and every one of these specialty molds costs money to make.  You also mentioned, here.

Quote:[font="Source Sans Pro", Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]Cheaper layers that use less material net greater profits, and that can offset the costs of the changed molds.[/font]

It seems to be a general belief that the later Surge waves are a huge step down from the earlier ones, wouldn't you agree?

Quote:[font="Source Sans Pro", Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]There's simply not enough wiggle room in these design for this to be workable, and it still sacrifices the older systems for this new one way late into their line even if it did function.[/font]

Funny thing about that.  I've actually experimented with both Hasbro and Takara TOMY drivers on Takara TOMY and Hasbro layers.  As it turns out, the Takara TOMY layers actually have the same amount of wiggle room for the drivers, regardless of whether or not the driver is Takara TOMY or Hasbro brand.  Hasbro layers have a tighter fit on their(Hasbro mainline) drivers.  Hasbro's walls are about 2.5mm thick while Takara TOMY's are about 1mm thick, so, the magic number would be somewhere between 1.5 and 2mm.  You say Roar Bahamut would be useless because it has rubber stoppers, but those rubber stoppers are held in place by screws.  All you have to is remove them and the experiments can begin.  Also, to address your comments about slope damage, Hasbro mainline slopes already get damaged by their intended drivers.  I barely even use my Hasbro beys, and their slopes have markings on them. With that in mind, damage from Pro Series drivers wouldn't be much different, given a proper fit.

Quote:[font="Source Sans Pro", Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]Did you ever consider that keeping them seperate might be the goal? The mainline sells on driver gimmicks and having fun. Pro Series sells on performance. One is built cheap for casuals, the other built tough for competitors. They don't aim for the same audience, and there's very little overlap between the two. Those who want one probably don't want to buy the other very much (to which I can attest to. I've never considered Pro for a moment since I already own every single TT release that isn't Perseus). Yes, it's more options, but if that's not enticing to either target audience then why bother with it? It's wasted effort at that point.[/font]

I doubt that's actually what they intended to do with the Pro Series.  If that were the case, they would've actually put more effort into the line, itself.  We don't have a Pro Series exclusives like Kerbeus, Sphinx, Hydrax, and Cyclops, The Elite Champions set would've had an actual Destroy' driver, no Pro Series string launchers, no Pro Series boosters, no special parts packs, we still don't even have Pro Series launcher grips.  They most likely forgot about the compatibility issue and just hastily put a disclaimer disguised as a feature.

(Aug. 06, 2021  12:21 AM)Dracieleone Wrote: [ -> ]

(Aug. 05, 2021  7:34 PM)MagikHorse Wrote: [ -> ][font="Source Sans Pro", Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]I don't know why you're shouting that at me, you were saying that their releases were hollow and thus referring to the mainline, but your original "It's only more expensive because Hasbro wasted their money and resources on gimping the beys for maximum profit." quote makes sense only for the mainline, not Pro Series.[/font]

I'm not shouting, I'm emphazising.  You said Pro Series is relatively more expensive, and I explained why they are such.

Quote:[font="Source Sans Pro", Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]Regardless Pro Series likely exists because they got sick and tired of people complaining about how unusable their stuff is in tournaments honestly.[/font]

And why is that?

Quote:[font="Source Sans Pro", Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]I'm not buying this "two way street" thing at all. You're gonna have to explain really, really well how their marketable gimmicks are somehow less important than standard drivers with no marketable attributes to them at all.[/font]

You said "[font="Source Sans Pro", Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]Maybe they just like the driver gimmicks and don't care about Pro either[/font]".  This doesn't only work one way.  People have different preferences.

Quote:[font="Source Sans Pro", Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]The implication was still unreadable, and the cutting off of my sentence makes you look inattentive and like you don't have a clue what you're doing.[/font]

I do this to be concise.  None of the information you present that I cut out is important/redundant, so I don't include it.  Also, if really care enough about that, they can go back and read it for themselves.

Quote:As to your "this only matters for competitive" line of baloney... maybe you just want to use the rest of your mainline collection without being so loose that TT's Bearing starts to look good and don't care about Pro? That alone is a reason to deny all of this, and yet you've still never suitably addressed this at all short of saying "my idea works, trust me"... which is really not an argument or rooted in sound physics.

Again, on a casual level, Hasbro's mainline layers would still have enough friction to hold themselves together.  More on that, later.

Quote:[font="Source Sans Pro", Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]Let me get this straight, you're saying that the reason Hasbro is getting weaker over time is because they don't care? Isn't this admitting that the 95% of releases I'm bringing up are reverse power creeping like I was just saying... and then saying that's the exception to my rule? You're literally confirming what I said as fact and then trying to say I'm wrong because of it.[/font]

I said this is an EXCEPTION.  This may or may not be true, for Hasbro's Burst, but it was certainly true for the majority of the Beyblade franchise.  I'm certain that your 95% remark is hyperbole, but I'm just technically giving you this because I can't be asked to test out every current Hasbro mainline release.

Quote:[font="Source Sans Pro", Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]With that much being said, if they "don't have any real incentive to try any harder", why would they bother trying to do this anyways? Doesn't this lack of caring give them continued reason to not care about adding TT/Pro compatibility to the mainline?[/font]

True, but it won't last.  You can only poke the bear so much.  You even answer your own question, here.

Quote:Pro is more convenient, yes. I'd be a fool to try and deny that. Pro is also more prone to wearing down as well. If people heard that the TT stuff didn't and the prices are similar enough (and they really do range from slightly cheaper to mildly pricier, short of perhaps a few random booster confirms. Those tend to be pricier on principle) you'd still likely drag some attention over there. That's also on top of the fact that Pro Series still offers very little unique drivers, which means realistic TT compatibility nets you more options that Pro ever will.

Quote:[font="Source Sans Pro", Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]And no, Pro isn't more expensive than the mainline because "they are spending more money to support two Beyblade lines, instead of just one". If it was something like that the mainline prices would start rising too.[/font]

Interesting point.  Let's take a look at a previous statement you said.

Quote:At the very least they have to change the teeth into their slopes, which results in new molds being produced for Hasbro use (you can't just change a piece of a mold out for another). The same is true for drivers as well, once again due to the differences in their systems and the incompatibilities I've already pointed out (though they can possibly just replace the top piece of those instead of redoing the whole thing).

Hasbro makes two molds different from Takara TOMY's; one for the layer and one for the driver.  Turbo comes along, and with the introduction of Slingshock, they make two brand new molds for their exclusive parts; the Slingshock drivers, and all those exclusive discs.  Rise comes, and this is repeated with new molds for the chips and Hypersphere drivers.  With surge, they make an additional mold for its chips, as well as new molds for the Speedstorm drivers.  With those Speedstorm drivers, some of them have an additional mold made for metal variants. The QuadDrive system is coming up, and it's looking to, once again, add a bunch of new molds to Hasbro's already large collection.  Each and every one of these specialty molds costs money to make.  You also mentioned, here.

Quote:[font="Source Sans Pro", Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]Cheaper layers that use less material net greater profits, and that can offset the costs of the changed molds.[/font]

It seems to be a general belief that the later Surge waves are a huge step down from the earlier ones, wouldn't you agree?

Quote:[font="Source Sans Pro", Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]There's simply not enough wiggle room in these design for this to be workable, and it still sacrifices the older systems for this new one way late into their line even if it did function.[/font]

Funny thing about that.  I've actually experimented with both Hasbro and Takara TOMY drivers on Takara TOMY and Hasbro layers.  As it turns out, the Takara TOMY layers actually have the same amount of wiggle room for the drivers, regardless of whether or not the driver is Takara TOMY or Hasbro brand.  Hasbro layers have a tighter fit on their(Hasbro mainline) drivers.  Hasbro's walls are about 2.5mm thick while Takara TOMY's are about 1mm thick, so, the magic number would be somewhere between 1.5 and 2mm.  You say Roar Bahamut would be useless because it has rubber stoppers, but those rubber stoppers are held in place by screws.  All you have to is remove them and the experiments can begin.  Also, to address your comments about slope damage, Hasbro mainline slopes already get damaged by their intended drivers.  I barely even use my Hasbro beys, and their slopes have markings on them. With that in mind, damage from Pro Series drivers wouldn't be much different, given a proper fit.

Quote:[font="Source Sans Pro", Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]Did you ever consider that keeping them seperate might be the goal? The mainline sells on driver gimmicks and having fun. Pro Series sells on performance. One is built cheap for casuals, the other built tough for competitors. They don't aim for the same audience, and there's very little overlap between the two. Those who want one probably don't want to buy the other very much (to which I can attest to. I've never considered Pro for a moment since I already own every single TT release that isn't Perseus). Yes, it's more options, but if that's not enticing to either target audience then why bother with it? It's wasted effort at that point.[/font]

I doubt that's actually what they intended to do with the Pro Series.  If that were the case, they would've actually put more effort into the line, itself.  We don't have a Pro Series exclusives like Kerbeus, Sphinx, Hydrax, and Cyclops, The Elite Champions set would've had an actual Destroy' driver, no Pro Series string launchers, no Pro Series boosters, no special parts packs, we still don't even have Pro Series launcher grips.  They most likely forgot about the compatibility issue and just hastily put a disclaimer disguised as a feature.

here's a thought, why don't you stop trying to argue with someone who's collected almost every part and knows what they're talking about. There is literally no reason to continue this argument. I've seen Magik bring up better points than you and this thread doesn't need some endless debate because you refuse to understand

Yo, everyone let's chill, Hasbro isn't the best but it isn't the worst, usually when a Beyblade in TT Form isn't that good, (Let's use Glide Ragnaruk for this example) Hasbro makes it better like Glide Roktaovr, Hasbro isn't perfect but, there trying their best, (I think) also Hakaishin I get your trying to dial down everything but you need a more subtle approach, you should just calmly and subtly try to lower the situation.

---

In an attempt to turn this back into a regular Hasbro thread, what do you think about the next Pro Series line, all I know is that one of the Beys will be Left Spin Diablos which will be awesome! I'm hoping to pick this one up! Also if they're giving Devlos a left spin layer I think they should do the same with World Spryzen, what do you think?

(Aug. 06, 2021  1:45 AM)HakaishinLDrago Wrote: [ -> ]

(Aug. 06, 2021  12:21 AM)Dracieleone Wrote: [ -> ]I'm not shouting, I'm emphazising.  You said Pro Series is relatively more expensive, and I explained why they are such.



And why is that?


You said "[font="Source Sans Pro", Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]Maybe they just like the driver gimmicks and don't care about Pro either[/font]".  This doesn't only work one way.  People have different preferences.


I do this to be concise.  None of the information you present that I cut out is important/redundant, so I don't include it.  Also, if really care enough about that, they can go back and read it for themselves.





Again, on a casual level, Hasbro's mainline layers would still have enough friction to hold themselves together.  More on that, later.

I said this is an EXCEPTION.  This may or may not be true, for Hasbro's Burst, but it was certainly true for the majority of the Beyblade franchise.  I'm certain that your 95% remark is hyperbole, but I'm just technically giving you this because I can't be asked to test out every current Hasbro mainline release.

True, but it won't last.  You can only poke the bear so much.  You even answer your own question, here.




Interesting point.  Let's take a look at a previous statement you said.



Hasbro makes two molds different from Takara TOMY's; one for the layer and one for the driver.  Turbo comes along, and with the introduction of Slingshock, they make two brand new molds for their exclusive parts; the Slingshock drivers, and all those exclusive discs.  Rise comes, and this is repeated with new molds for the chips and Hypersphere drivers.  With surge, they make an additional mold for its chips, as well as new molds for the Speedstorm drivers.  With those Speedstorm drivers, some of them have an additional mold made for metal variants. The QuadDrive system is coming up, and it's looking to, once again, add a bunch of new molds to Hasbro's already large collection.  Each and every one of these specialty molds costs money to make.  You also mentioned, here.

It seems to be a general belief that the later Surge waves are a huge step down from the earlier ones, wouldn't you agree?


Funny thing about that.  I've actually experimented with both Hasbro and Takara TOMY drivers on Takara TOMY and Hasbro layers.  As it turns out, the Takara TOMY layers actually have the same amount of wiggle room for the drivers, regardless of whether or not the driver is Takara TOMY or Hasbro brand.  Hasbro layers have a tighter fit on their(Hasbro mainline) drivers.  Hasbro's walls are about 2.5mm thick while Takara TOMY's are about 1mm thick, so, the magic number would be somewhere between 1.5 and 2mm.  You say Roar Bahamut would be useless because it has rubber stoppers, but those rubber stoppers are held in place by screws.  All you have to is remove them and the experiments can begin.  Also, to address your comments about slope damage, Hasbro mainline slopes already get damaged by their intended drivers.  I barely even use my Hasbro beys, and their slopes have markings on them. With that in mind, damage from Pro Series drivers wouldn't be much different, given a proper fit.


I doubt that's actually what they intended to do with the Pro Series.  If that were the case, they would've actually put more effort into the line, itself.  We don't have a Pro Series exclusives like Kerbeus, Sphinx, Hydrax, and Cyclops, The Elite Champions set would've had an actual Destroy' driver, no Pro Series string launchers, no Pro Series boosters, no special parts packs, we still don't even have Pro Series launcher grips.  They most likely forgot about the compatibility issue and just hastily put a disclaimer disguised as a feature.

here's a thought, why don't you stop trying to argue with someone who's collected almost every part and knows what they're talking about. There is literally no reason to continue this argument. I've seen Magik bring up better points than you and this thread doesn't need some endless debate because you refuse to understand

I never started this argument, though.  My original post wasn't even directed at Magik.  They just decided to jump on it.  They could've just ignored it and moved on, but they didn't.

Will you guys move this conversation to the PMS?
Now we're here to talk about a specific topic not start arguing and arguing until it turns into spam

Hey guys, how do you think the new QuadDrive system will be?

i think it'll be awesome

(Aug. 06, 2021  2:20 AM)Dracieleone Wrote: [ -> ]

(Aug. 06, 2021  1:45 AM)HakaishinLDrago Wrote: [ -> ]here's a thought, why don't you stop trying to argue with someone who's collected almost every part and knows what they're talking about. There is literally no reason to continue this argument. I've seen Magik bring up better points than you and this thread doesn't need some endless debate because you refuse to understand

I never started this argument, though.  My original post wasn't even directed at Magik.  They just decided to jump on it.  They could've just ignored it and moved on, but they didn't.

This argument is as flawed as they come. Just as much as I didn't have to jump on it you didn't have to respond to my critique either. Sure you didn't start it, but you certainly didn't try to end it did you? This is a child's excuse to avoid blame, and it does not work in the real world.

Your logic continues to be flawed/contradictory/nonexistant, your middle ground still doesn't work the way you think it does and opens it up to damage, and either way you're missing the entire point about why things are done the way they are anyways so literally none of that even matters to begin with. I'd find better arguments by shouting at a wall at this point, and I'm just tired of wasting my time on you.

(Aug. 06, 2021  2:36 AM)BladeKingX Wrote: [ -> ]Hey guys, how do you think the new QuadDrive system will be?

i think it'll be awesome

Honestly, I'm not impressed, because I was honestly Hasbro's been reusing the tall driver so many times and now, it's getting annoying, hopefully, we'll get a driver system