We created the word document and copied and paste the info from the Amazon Australia site
(Jul. 22, 2018 9:24 PM)originalzankye Wrote: [ -> ]We created the word document and copied and paste the info from the Amazon Australia site
Ah I didn't think the australia page had any more info. Good update!
"Gianon G4"... what a great typo of Gaianon lol
I find it suspect that the amazon listings for these supposed products would have misspelled the product name. I wouldn't be surprised if these listings were fabricated by someone else.
I have seen AmazonMX have this kind of updates before, with the Colossus stadium, and then the Warrior 4pack, and I find it very weird there was a massive update today, since I do check daily because... well beys are rare in here. Hopefully we do see pics very soon tho. Funnily enough, I haven't even seen anything about the supposedly existing Snake Pit Stadium.
(Jul. 22, 2018 7:24 PM)Real_ilinnuc Wrote: [ -> ]Honestly TT's remakes were ugly af too. The update to the burst system wasn't good at all. The only half decent looking remake is Wolborg so far. TBH Hasbro is getting way too much hate right now. Like there are obvious things they aren't doing well (Mainly marketing,) but for nearly all of their switchstrike beys... They look really good. No bad recolors so for either.
Lol this hatred that a lot of people have for Hasbro just spreads, which legit kills beyblade. If nobody buys hasbro beys because a sticker is too dark or the plastic is too foggy, then hasbro will just kill off the line because nobody is buying them.
Sorry, ilinnuc, but I disagree with you. Our criticisms are valid on many areas and as consumers, we should be allowed to voice our opinion(s) in regards to the products and companies we're supporting. I understand the fear of the products discontinuing, however, good businesses don't operate like this. The division that manages Beyblades at Hasbro should be monitoring which products sell and which do not (along with many other aspects of the business) and adjust their products accordingly (and this should happen well before a product line is discontinued). For example, if the re-colours are not selling, they'd be wise to focus their money and marketing toward the Switchstrike Beyblades. If Hasbro's Beyblade division is indeed in danger, they have far greater issues than minor criticisms on an online forum.
Also, in regards to TT's remakes being "ugly af", as you've said. You contradicted your review of GOLD Dragoon F, for which you stated: "dang this looks good." ;) Just sayin'
I've praised Hasbro when IMO they deserve praise. I think the exclusives Beyblades are great, I absolutely love the Xcalius X3 Sword Launcher Set, Star Storm, Battle Tower, and especially the Colossus Beystadium. When they create a bad or cheaply made product, I've criticized them, as well (the remakes, especially). If people continue to purchase the products that are being criticized, they'll continue to make those particular products versus the ones that are made well. Additionally, I've criticized TT for many things, as well. Mainly their blindspot in marketing and exclusion of social media. I believe Hasbro is doing a better job of this (but not nearly as well as they should be). A huge amount of their fanbase has grown because of the YouTube community, and both Hasbro and TT should be marketing through that (For example, sending free exclusives/lottery Beybladesto be reviewed. The level chips, in particular, was a missed opportunity). Beyblades primary audience is children and with the exception of the television show, they consume an incredible amount of YouTube videos. They need to get on this ASAP.
Anyway, the news above seems way too good to be true, but I would LOVE basically every Beyblade they listed. Upgrades for Anubion, Betromoth, Zeutron, etc.? Heck, yes! Exclusives getting upgrades? YES! I just hope they don't forget Orpheus O4. Please be real! Please, please, please be real!
(Jul. 22, 2018 10:35 PM)KinkoUsagi Wrote: [ -> ]Sorry, ilinnuc, but I disagree with you. Our criticisms are valid on many areas and as consumers, we should be allowed to voice our opinion(s) in regards to the products and companies we're supporting.
Thank you so much for addressing this. I've wanted to reply to ilinnuc's post as well, but because the conversation shifted towards news again I thought nobody would want to talk about it anymore.
This is far from "hating" Hasbro, we just want to express what we think is going wrong with their products. Not every Hasbro beyblade is terrible, but there are certainly problems (and it seems a lot of people agree with it). If I can't share criticism about beyblades on a beyblade forum, I don't know where I could possibly talk about it. Hasbro doesn't have a mail address for "customer reviews, ideas & criticism".
They are doing great with Switch Strike so far, but I certainly won't give Hasbro a pass on everything else because of that. And I feel like we need to address this, so a big company like Hasbro gets their money together to give us solid products. All these things are not cheap. And I refuse to pay $20 (which is quite a bit, at least for me) for some cut content.
Hasbro won't read these threads anyway, but I feel better by saying what I would like to see executed better than by just accepting it.
Critique =|= hate, and I agree that I might be sarcastic at some points, but I still think I'm not treating Hasbro in an unfair way.
That's that
Now: I would be really glad to see some remakes for Gaianon etc. for the Turbo line. I have big hopes for this upcoming toyline!
I never said they weren't valid. Opinions should be voiced. However, do know by not purchasing products or voicing opinions which could negatively effect sales... will result in Beyblade being less successful. And this is Hasbro we're talking about, they aren't banking on Beyblades success. If it dies out, they'll have 3 toylines sprouting to replace it. There is a lot of, in my opinion, unwarranted hate towards Hasbro as well. One comment being that the only good thing Hasbro has done for Burst so far is the Xcalius X3 Set, which is for sure an odd viewpoint.
Hasbro doesn't make these toys for us. They are toys. Not figures, not sets like gundam. They are plastic spin tops that have built a community because its fun. They don't make high quality collector pieces and while it sucks Hasbro doesn't look as good as TT, does it really matter that much? Switchstrike beys (While a step down) follow the original versions extremely well.
Their audience is 8-13 years old. I don't think many kids at all would care that much about colors being a little off and plastic being cloudy.
Can we at least be thankful that Hasbro brought the remakes back in the first place?They didn't have to bring them back at all. Their targeted demo aren't even old enough to really remember what they are. Sure, they didn't do it perfectly but neither did TT. Not by a long shot.
Well technically, yeah the demographics are for 8-13 year olds, some who won't care that it isn't like Takara Tomy is understandable and I know it was made more for them, the colours in Switchstrike do follow the originals a bit more and will actually look more like the show itself, so it's all well and good.
However, while it is understandable, we can't be expected to adjust to the mindset of kids who don't know the TT ones any better, most, if not all of us here are already aware of the original versions so we're pretty much expecting something similar or at least something as pleasing.
The remakes Hasbro did aren't a problem for me, albeit I didn't care for most of them to begin with no matter the brand, I just don't think the actual Burst line Hasbro did sits as well for me as the TT one and that's my bottom line.
I will say that making original layers and those fancy light up drivers are something I'll be thankful for, but again, everyone is entitled to like or dislike it. I don't buy Hasbro beyblades for the sake of keeping the line up, I only buy them if I am genuinely interested, and if I don't like them then I'm sorry, I won't buy them, that's just how it is. You only buy something if you need or want them, but if not, then buying just to keep the sales up isn't enough of a reason for me, there's no guarantee that it will keep it up anyway.
(Jul. 22, 2018 8:47 PM)originalzankye Wrote: [ -> ]
THANKS TO FLORIANO FOR THE LEAD
I wonder if these Anubion A4,Betromoth B4,Zeutron Z4,Treptune T4 will be all Hasbro-exclusives...if so,then wow! we'll have a lot of exclusive Cho-Z beys for hasbro!
(Jul. 22, 2018 11:54 PM)Real_ilinnuc Wrote: [ -> ]There is a lot of, in my opinion, unwarranted hate towards Hasbro as well. One comment being that the only good thing Hasbro has done for Burst so far is the Xcalius X3 Set, which is for sure an odd viewpoint.
If you're referring to my post, you need to re-read it, friend. I said "the best thing" and not "the only good thing" and I stand by that. If you don't own the Xcalius X3 set, it's fantastic! The launcher is one of the best (both Hasbro and TT) for Burst and it's extremely popular amongst kids and easy to grip for children, as well. The re-colour is gorgeous for collectors, too. Highly recommend buying it or having someone send it to you from Canada for review (which I'd be happy to do).
(Jul. 22, 2018 11:54 PM)Real_ilinnuc Wrote: [ -> ]However, do know by not purchasing products or voicing opinions which could negatively effect sales... will result in Beyblade being less successful. And this is Hasbro we're talking about, they aren't banking on Beyblades success. If it dies out, they'll have 3 toylines sprouting to replace it.
You're exaggerating to prove a point which is contradicted by the point you made below. Hasbro's Beyblade's primary audience is children, as you've stated. The opinion's expressed on WBO has very, very little impact on Hasbro's sales. If the company's Beyblade division is currently struggling, it is not because of these posts, it's because of the many issues in key areas, including but not limited to: marketing (which you've criticized), stock (huge issue!) and quality of product (which is debatable).
(Jul. 22, 2018 11:54 PM)Real_ilinnuc Wrote: [ -> ]Hasbro doesn't make these toys for us. They are toys. Not figures, not sets like gundam. They are plastic spin tops that have built a community because its fun. They don't make high quality collector pieces and while it sucks Hasbro doesn't look as good as TT, does it really matter that much? Switchstrike beys (While a step down) follow the original versions extremely well.
Their audience is 8-13 years old. I don't think many kids at all would care that much about colors being a little off and plastic being cloudy.
This is true. Their primary audience is children, like with many toy-line companies, however, it isn't limited to children. Collectors and loyal fanbases, such as those featured on Youtube, should not be ignored. The game is fun, but if it's to survive and elevate to the next level of success, Hasbro needs to invest more into it. Similarly with Pokemon, which has a large degree of appeal outside of their target audience (of children). Beyblade, which largely followed the success of Pokemon, were to continue and build on whatever success they currently have, they should take notes from Nintendo/GameFreak on how they don't isolate their many, many loyal fanbases.
(Jul. 22, 2018 11:54 PM)Real_ilinnuc Wrote: [ -> ]Can we at least be thankful that Hasbro brought the remakes back in the first place?They didn't have to bring them back at all. Their targeted demo aren't even old enough to really remember what they are. Sure, they didn't do it perfectly but neither did TT. Not by a long shot.
I guess? They didn't make the products out of the goodness of their hearts. It's a business and they were hoping for money. If they made a product that's lacking and it does not sell, it's not our fault as consumers. We're spending our time and money. Also, you're right -- TT didn't make them perfectly and many, many people complain about that.
WONDER VALTRYEK. Really. What is so wrong with the word winning
(Jul. 23, 2018 12:50 AM)BurstMaster Wrote: [ -> ]WONDER VALTRYEK. Really. What is so wrong with the word winning
Maybe it sounded possibly too misleading haha? Honestly though if they had to rename it something, Wonder sounds really weird and just unsuited for beyblade for some reason.
To be honest, I didn't really like "Winning", either.
The two new stadiums sound very, very interesting. Man, with Snake Pit and now these, I really like the themed and unique stadium choices. Hopefully they're pretty big, as well.
(Jul. 23, 2018 12:37 AM)KinkoUsagi Wrote: [ -> ] (Jul. 22, 2018 11:54 PM)Real_ilinnuc Wrote: [ -> ]There is a lot of, in my opinion, unwarranted hate towards Hasbro as well. One comment being that the only good thing Hasbro has done for Burst so far is the Xcalius X3 Set, which is for sure an odd viewpoint.
If you're referring to my post, you need to re-read it, friend. I said "the best thing" and not "the only good thing" and I stand by that. If you don't own the Xcalius X3 set, it's fantastic! The launcher is one of the best (both Hasbro and TT) for Burst and it's extremely popular amongst kids and easy to grip for children, as well. The re-colour is gorgeous for collectors, too. Highly recommend buying it or having someone send it to you from Canada for review (which I'd be happy to do).
(Jul. 22, 2018 11:54 PM)Real_ilinnuc Wrote: [ -> ]However, do know by not purchasing products or voicing opinions which could negatively effect sales... will result in Beyblade being less successful. And this is Hasbro we're talking about, they aren't banking on Beyblades success. If it dies out, they'll have 3 toylines sprouting to replace it.
You're exaggerating to prove a point which is contradicted by the point you made below. Hasbro's Beyblade's primary audience is children, as you've stated. The opinion's expressed on WBO has very, very little impact on Hasbro's sales. If the company's Beyblade division is currently struggling, it is not because of these posts, it's because of the many issues in key areas, including but not limited to: marketing (which you've criticized), stock (huge issue!) and quality of product (which is debatable).
(Jul. 22, 2018 11:54 PM)Real_ilinnuc Wrote: [ -> ]Hasbro doesn't make these toys for us. They are toys. Not figures, not sets like gundam. They are plastic spin tops that have built a community because its fun. They don't make high quality collector pieces and while it sucks Hasbro doesn't look as good as TT, does it really matter that much? Switchstrike beys (While a step down) follow the original versions extremely well.
Their audience is 8-13 years old. I don't think many kids at all would care that much about colors being a little off and plastic being cloudy.
This is true. Their primary audience is children, like with many toy-line companies, however, it isn't limited to children. Collectors and loyal fanbases, such as those featured on Youtube, should not be ignored. The game is fun, but if it's to survive and elevate to the next level of success, Hasbro needs to invest more into it. Similarly with Pokemon, which has a large degree of appeal outside of their target audience (of children). Beyblade, which largely followed the success of Pokemon, were to continue and build on whatever success they currently have, they should take notes from Nintendo/GameFreak on how they don't isolate their many, many loyal fanbases.
(Jul. 22, 2018 11:54 PM)Real_ilinnuc Wrote: [ -> ]Can we at least be thankful that Hasbro brought the remakes back in the first place?They didn't have to bring them back at all. Their targeted demo aren't even old enough to really remember what they are. Sure, they didn't do it perfectly but neither did TT. Not by a long shot.
I guess? They didn't make the products out of the goodness of their hearts. It's a business and they were hoping for money. If they made a product that's lacking and it does not sell, it's not our fault as consumers. We're spending our time and money. Also, you're right -- TT didn't make them perfectly and many, many people complain about that.
Bottom line Hasbro really doesn't care about their older audience nor really should they. They should provide the best product for their demo, and they currently are.
Comparing Beyblade to Pokemon is also a false comparison as well. Mainly because Pokemon has many different markets. They have the games which are actually pretty deep RPG's but are also easy to get into, which is why kids and adults like them. They have trading cards for the people that like to play cardgames, and then they have toys which appeal to kids, and are def not the greatest quality figures either.
You can't really compare these two different IP's because Pokemon has reached such a large base because of the games and how deep the games are (Cardgame too)
Beyblade for the most part isn't that deep. I could spend hours messing around with combos, but a much larger majority of people would prefer to play a videogame AKA pokemon. Beyblade, as a whole, is something that adults for the most part is neat but they're not going to spend their money on it.
I also never said that people on a website disliking products will make beyblade fail, but im saying that in general of people genuinely dislike a product for an (in my opinion) illegitimate reason, they dislike WILL sway others and eventually people will be disliking more major releases in general. I'm not saying that's what's going to happen, but It would be best if people turned hasbro releases into a bit more of a positive thing.
One more thing, just to touch back on to the old gen releases a bit. You said that Hasbro should take note from nintendo/gamefreak to not isolate certain fan groups. I think Hasbro releasing old gen remakes was them doing just that. Obviously they want to make money on it, but so did TT. If TT REALLY just wanted to be amazing to old fans and collectors they would have given out old gen remakes for free or at development cost, but that's not how business works, so they sold them at a profit. These beys were also really rare for a while, being corocoro releases, and alternate random booster prizes except the one that was more widely available. Hasbro is mass producing them in double packs for everyone, not just collectors. No company is going to make something out of the kindness of their hearts, but Hasbro had zero incentive to release remakes but they did anyways. Which is surprising to me considering non-anime beys dont sell well, especially those that aren't switchstrike. This is why Fafnir and spryzen are hard to find, but minoboros and kerbeus k1 still line the shelves.
(Jul. 23, 2018 12:50 AM)BurstMaster Wrote: [ -> ]WONDER VALTRYEK. Really. What is so wrong with the word winning
I'm not surprised it's renamed Wonder Valtryek, Valt was nicknamed "Wonder Boy" before xD
(Jul. 23, 2018 1:51 AM)Real_ilinnuc Wrote: [ -> ] (Jul. 23, 2018 12:37 AM)KinkoUsagi Wrote: [ -> ]If you're referring to my post, you need to re-read it, friend. I said "the best thing" and not "the only good thing" and I stand by that. If you don't own the Xcalius X3 set, it's fantastic! The launcher is one of the best (both Hasbro and TT) for Burst and it's extremely popular amongst kids and easy to grip for children, as well. The re-colour is gorgeous for collectors, too. Highly recommend buying it or having someone send it to you from Canada for review (which I'd be happy to do).
You're exaggerating to prove a point which is contradicted by the point you made below. Hasbro's Beyblade's primary audience is children, as you've stated. The opinion's expressed on WBO has very, very little impact on Hasbro's sales. If the company's Beyblade division is currently struggling, it is not because of these posts, it's because of the many issues in key areas, including but not limited to: marketing (which you've criticized), stock (huge issue!) and quality of product (which is debatable).
This is true. Their primary audience is children, like with many toy-line companies, however, it isn't limited to children. Collectors and loyal fanbases, such as those featured on Youtube, should not be ignored. The game is fun, but if it's to survive and elevate to the next level of success, Hasbro needs to invest more into it. Similarly with Pokemon, which has a large degree of appeal outside of their target audience (of children). Beyblade, which largely followed the success of Pokemon, were to continue and build on whatever success they currently have, they should take notes from Nintendo/GameFreak on how they don't isolate their many, many loyal fanbases.
I guess? They didn't make the products out of the goodness of their hearts. It's a business and they were hoping for money. If they made a product that's lacking and it does not sell, it's not our fault as consumers. We're spending our time and money. Also, you're right -- TT didn't make them perfectly and many, many people complain about that.
Bottom line Hasbro really doesn't care about their older audience nor really should they. They should provide the best product for their demo, and they currently are.
Comparing Beyblade to Pokemon is also a false comparison as well. Mainly because Pokemon has many different markets. They have the games which are actually pretty deep RPG's but are also easy to get into, which is why kids and adults like them. They have trading cards for the people that like to play cardgames, and then they have toys which appeal to kids, and are def not the greatest quality figures either.
You can't really compare these two different IP's because Pokemon has reached such a large base because of the games and how deep the games are (Cardgame too)
Beyblade for the most part isn't that deep. I could spend hours messing around with combos, but a much larger majority of people would prefer to play a videogame AKA pokemon. Beyblade, as a whole, is something that adults for the most part is neat but they're not going to spend their money on it.
I also never said that people on a website disliking products will make beyblade fail, but im saying that in general of people genuinely dislike a product for an (in my opinion) illegitimate reason, they dislike WILL sway others and eventually people will be disliking more major releases in general. I'm not saying that's what's going to happen, but It would be best if people turned hasbro releases into a bit more of a positive thing.
One more thing, just to touch back on to the old gen releases a bit. You said that Hasbro should take note from nintendo/gamefreak to not isolate certain fan groups. I think Hasbro releasing old gen remakes was them doing just that. Obviously they want to make money on it, but so did TT. If TT REALLY just wanted to be amazing to old fans and collectors they would have given out old gen remakes for free or at development cost, but that's not how business works, so they sold them at a profit. These beys were also really rare for a while, being corocoro releases, and alternate random booster prizes except the one that was more widely available. Hasbro is mass producing them in double packs for everyone, not just collectors. No company is going to make something out of the kindness of their hearts, but Hasbro had zero incentive to release remakes but they did anyways. Which is surprising to me considering non-anime beys dont sell well, especially those that aren't switchstrike. This is why Fafnir and spryzen are hard to find, but minoboros and kerbeus k1 still line the shelves.
Disagree. As a business, appealing to a mass audience and making more money is the whole point. It shouldn't be their primary focus, if that's what you mean but isolating part of their market, seems like a weak business tactic. They aren't providing the "best product of their demo" considering their sales numbers, but if you say so.
Actually, Beyblade's beginnings were very much inspired, and largely copied, Pokemon's. In the beginning, it had many of the things you listed, such as a card game (quite terrible), many games, including an RPG (they were bad) and the television show's main character was an Ash Ketchum knockoff, essentially. I compare them because they both share similar beginnings but one is clearly more successful and the impact is clearly larger. Additionally, Pokemon did many things correctly, while Beyblade's attempts to expand were very much a "cash grab". Both audiences are children (including the games) but they do many things to provide an inclusive experience for both. This is just within the actual games, GameFreak and Nintendo have expanded outside of this, sometimes directly targeting the mature fanbases (Pokken Tournament, for example, was an effort to target professional fighting gamers, particularly EVO-like tournaments), or including both (Pokemon GO).
I disagree that Beyblade isn't deep. I'm shocked that you have that stance, considering bladers like you and JoJo have provided many examples that suggests otherwise. Adults, or mature fans, don't spend their time on it in NA (I'd say it's much more popular in JPN) because of many reasons, but that will take up too much time to debate here.
Essentially, you're saying the same thing. This thread, and WBO's (as much as I love it) sway is far less than you're estimating. If Hasbro's sales are being effected, I assure you, it has nothing to do with us and everything to do with them (for the reasons we've listed above).
Releasing cheap versions of legacy Beyblades is the least work the company could do, honestly. It's appreciated by some, but at the end of the day, it's a miscalculation, on their part (from my perspective). You're correct about the correlation between the show and the Beyblade's popularity, but releasing these in an easy-to-find way, with the quality reduced, is not a great way to be inclusive to your collector consumers, IMO. In fact, if we want to compare Hasbro to Hasbro, we can take a walk down memory lane and see how well they handled the release of rare Beyblades in the G-Revolution era, such as Ocean Wrath G, Venusian G. They added engine gears, to make them more alluring to their primary consumers (children), changed them to anime accurate, but also released them to the public for those rare collectors. I'm doubtful Beyblades like Venusian G, Rapid Eagle G and Dark Effigy G were popular amongst those that watched the television show.
We can agree to disagree. I doubt either of us are going to convince the other person, anyway, and I'm certain everyone would like to discuss the new releases and not be forced to read this debate.
Alright I would just like to throw this out there which goes for anyone, please try and avoid quoting extremely large posts please, or at least condense it into spoilers to avoid them filling up the pages too much. Thank you!
I never said the WBO has a major sway on sales. It doesn't at all. I'm just saying negativity spreads... which is true.
They ARE appealing to a mass audience. A mass amount of 8-13 year olds. The main bread and butter. Companies produce these toys in massive bulk quantities, and it gets more expensive per unit as the scale decreases. For them to make special products for adults would just be expensive. And I'm sorry but making beyblades that have clear instead of cloudy plastic would not make them appeal more to adults. At least not in a meaningful way. They've never released their sales numbers. They could very well be hitting their target sales per quarter. We don't know, unless you have a source on it. Beyblade may have started as a way to cash in on pokemons fame, but to compare them and say is just a false comparison. They are completely different and pokemon is wayyyy bigger. Nintendo releasing Pokken to appeal to fighting games fans was a great move, and its in the spirit of pokemon. What would beyblade do? controlling a bey mid-battle with button combos? No.
Beyblade is "deep" in its own way. Combos, launching, etc. BUT, at the end of the day its a combo of (for burst) 3 parts. And it's all very simple for the most part. Part variation cant be counted into the complexity of the game as its not supposed to be like that, just manufacturing differences. Beyblades complexity is also ruined by the constantly broken meta. Deathscyther D1 and D2, spriggan requiem, garuda and now Hell Salamander have absolutely taken of the meta, and all of them besides hS have been banned because of that.
There are TONS of parts to choose from, but the ones that actually viable make up a much shorter list. The pokemon card game is much deeper. The mainline pokemon games are deeper. There is just a limit on how complex a spin top can be.
Comparing generations of beyblade that are seperated by close to 15 years is also a false comparison as children have changed in that time span. Attention spans are shorter and apps and youtube videos are bigger than ever. So beyblades being anime accurate really didn't matter as much because kids were more hardcore fans back then, now they want only their favorite characters beyblade and that's really it.
Some really interesting points here, I feel like this raises a few questions for the future too.
I think everyone here agrees thag for the most part, Hasbros Beyblade Burst line is a success. Which is good, because as Illinuc has stated, theyre always going to have a toy line to replace it waiting in the wings. We saw the effects of this in Australia with Metal Fury and Shogun Steel not even coming out here. Unfortunately as he said, Hasbro doesnt owe us anything.
To tie it in with new release hype however, if all of those are truly new, unseen Hasbro exclusives, that'll be a HUGE shift for the company. Instead of copying TT with the Gen 1 remakes and slapping a shiny Legends sticker on it and crossing fingers, we'll have something not even in the show, or on overseas shelves; an incredibly bold move, even for them.
Wether its a mistype or not remains to be seen, but this could mean better things to come. I 200% agree with KinkoUsagi's criticisms of Hasbro, but theres still time to turn it around. Time will tell.
And yeah, I get that, Hasbro doesn't owe us anything nor has to make the beyblades on how we see fit no matter how much we want to. That said, we shouldn't be expected to buy the Hasbro beyblades if we aren't pleased with them. Hasbro doesn't have to make beyblades how some people want it, but don't expect those people to buy them if that's the case, and doing it for the sake of supporting the brand isn't enough of a reason if they aren't pleased with the products, whether it is accurate or at least good as an original product.
I do agree that Hasbro could possibly address some of the criticisms and that there is time, and maybe the Turbo line will be good, I'll admit I'm excited for them, but only time will tell, and honestly, going back to the whole "Hasbro owes us nothing" statement, I don't expect our criticisms of the products to be addressed, which again is fine, it's their choice, but it's also our choice to buy it or not as a result.
Hasbro in my opinion disappointing. Hasbro is not consistent with there releases. E. G me im from Australia and literally took 4 months just to get wave 2 like wow. Also the snake pit stadium found in Mexico but no news about the stadium set at All. The beys look like they have been putting less work into. The slope system is not really good in my opinion. The plastic gen releases from what I see is that they aren't as good as tt and what are they doing to dragoon. The wings and short and tiny looking compared to tt and look odd.
I think the Valtryek tops and Luinor Tops are going to be the sets Pegasus and lxdrago had before that includes Valtryeks and Luinors from Season 1 to 3.
This might just be me, but I fell hyped for the Hasbro exclusives. I’m glad their evolving the old beys instead of creating new ones(Though I don’t have a problem with that.
I’d rather see the slingshock BeyStadium and the Slingshock performance tips FIRST instead of the Hasbro Valtryek V4.
What would you think? Would a Valtryek with an original Volcanic driver 100% survive the slingshock railings? I think probably. Depends which hole it stadium outs on.
(Jul. 23, 2018 4:10 AM)Real_ilinnuc Wrote: [ -> ]
I never said the WBO has a major sway on sales. It doesn't at all. I'm just saying negativity spreads... which is true.
They ARE appealing to a mass audience. A mass amount of 8-13 year olds. The main bread and butter. Companies produce these toys in massive bulk quantities, and it gets more expensive per unit as the scale decreases. For them to make special products for adults would just be expensive. And I'm sorry but making beyblades that have clear instead of cloudy plastic would not make them appeal more to adults. At least not in a meaningful way. They've never released their sales numbers. They could very well be hitting their target sales per quarter. We don't know, unless you have a source on it. Beyblade may have started as a way to cash in on pokemons fame, but to compare them and say is just a false comparison. They are completely different and pokemon is wayyyy bigger. Nintendo releasing Pokken to appeal to fighting games fans was a great move, and its in the spirit of pokemon. What would beyblade do? controlling a bey mid-battle with button combos? No.
Beyblade is "deep" in its own way. Combos, launching, etc. BUT, at the end of the day its a combo of (for burst) 3 parts. And it's all very simple for the most part. Part variation cant be counted into the complexity of the game as its not supposed to be like that, just manufacturing differences. Beyblades complexity is also ruined by the constantly broken meta. Deathscyther D1 and D2, spriggan requiem, garuda and now Hell Salamander have absolutely taken of the meta, and all of them besides hS have been banned because of that.
There are TONS of parts to choose from, but the ones that actually viable make up a much shorter list. The pokemon card game is much deeper. The mainline pokemon games are deeper. There is just a limit on how complex a spin top can be.
Comparing generations of beyblade that are seperated by close to 15 years is also a false comparison as children have changed in that time span. Attention spans are shorter and apps and youtube videos are bigger than ever. So beyblades being anime accurate really didn't matter as much because kids were more hardcore fans back then, now they want only their favorite characters beyblade and that's really it.
Not literally, but essentially, that was the point you were attempting to make, in the beginning. "Negativity spreads" is such a vague statement. My point is that WBO criticizing Hasbro, on an online forum, will not have much range (in terms of spreading) and will very unlikely affect sales at all.
When two companies share similar roots, you do compare them, yes. You can disagree, for unknown reasons, but your point about Pokemon being larger,
is exactly the point I was making. GameFreak and Nintendo is a stronger company because of their business practices and choices. At the end of the day, I disagree with Hasbro's choices, and considering the downhill trend in popularity and relevance (and your clear anxiety for the toy-line being cancelled) I'd say changes need to be made. Mass audience of 8-13 year-olds? There is nothing large/massive about an audience of 8-13 year-old North American males (the primary target audience of the Beyblade Hasbro line). Pokemon made many strong business choices to increase their audience range (which had similar to Beyblade's), which, in turn, made them the bigger company. ^_^
The "meta" is created by hardcore fans of the toys (WBO). All games are plagued with this. Marvel vs. Capcom 2, which has a tremendous amount of depth, is no less deep because the top tier characters are incredibly powerful. Additionally, Beyblade has many components you've omitted, but I digress. We can just disagree before this becomes a new talking point.
The Pokemon card game is deeper because the company made it that deep. Beyblade's card game was a "cash grab". This was a choice and a poor business decision,
which is my entire point about Hasbro.
"False comparison". You keep stating this, but I'm not sure why. Toy companies have changed, but reflecting on what worked as a company is a common business practice. In fact, the whole nostalgia craze we've been riding is essentially a reflection of what brought in money and repeating that. People have a shorter attention span, actually, and it's not just limited to children. Technology has changed, but children clamoured for their favourites and what they recognized from television just as much. Not sure where you're getting your information from, but the anime was essentially a commercial for Beyblades, which is why the plot came secondary. Same purchasing motivation as ever, which is why Dragoon, to this day, is still one of the most recognizable and popular (it connects!)
I am mostly just going to echo what Jinbee is saying. This entire debate all started with a post declaring the hate (criticism) on this board being unwarranted and then went down far too many paths. If you believe Hasbro is doing a fantastic job, and you're a fan of Hasbro, ilinnuc, that's great. Keep purchasing their products and supporting them as a company. We will remain more critical of the products we're purchasing and that's just fine. We're all hardcore fans and want the best products and company practices (this includes you).
(Jul. 23, 2018 1:49 PM)KinkoUsagi Wrote: [ -> ] (Jul. 23, 2018 4:10 AM)Real_ilinnuc Wrote: [ -> ]
I never said the WBO has a major sway on sales. It doesn't at all. I'm just saying negativity spreads... which is true.
They ARE appealing to a mass audience. A mass amount of 8-13 year olds. The main bread and butter. Companies produce these toys in massive bulk quantities, and it gets more expensive per unit as the scale decreases. For them to make special products for adults would just be expensive. And I'm sorry but making beyblades that have clear instead of cloudy plastic would not make them appeal more to adults. At least not in a meaningful way. They've never released their sales numbers. They could very well be hitting their target sales per quarter. We don't know, unless you have a source on it. Beyblade may have started as a way to cash in on pokemons fame, but to compare them and say is just a false comparison. They are completely different and pokemon is wayyyy bigger. Nintendo releasing Pokken to appeal to fighting games fans was a great move, and its in the spirit of pokemon. What would beyblade do? controlling a bey mid-battle with button combos? No.
Beyblade is "deep" in its own way. Combos, launching, etc. BUT, at the end of the day its a combo of (for burst) 3 parts. And it's all very simple for the most part. Part variation cant be counted into the complexity of the game as its not supposed to be like that, just manufacturing differences. Beyblades complexity is also ruined by the constantly broken meta. Deathscyther D1 and D2, spriggan requiem, garuda and now Hell Salamander have absolutely taken of the meta, and all of them besides hS have been banned because of that.
There are TONS of parts to choose from, but the ones that actually viable make up a much shorter list. The pokemon card game is much deeper. The mainline pokemon games are deeper. There is just a limit on how complex a spin top can be.
Comparing generations of beyblade that are seperated by close to 15 years is also a false comparison as children have changed in that time span. Attention spans are shorter and apps and youtube videos are bigger than ever. So beyblades being anime accurate really didn't matter as much because kids were more hardcore fans back then, now they want only their favorite characters beyblade and that's really it.
Not literally, but essentially, that was the point you were attempting to make, in the beginning. "Negativity spreads" is such a vague statement. My point is that WBO criticizing Hasbro, on an online forum, will not have much range (in terms of spreading) and will very unlikely affect sales at all.
When two companies share similar roots, you do compare them, yes. You can disagree, for unknown reasons, but your point about Pokemon being larger,
is exactly the point I was making. GameFreak and Nintendo is a stronger company because of their business practices and choices. At the end of the day, I disagree with Hasbro's choices, and considering the downhill trend in popularity and relevance (and your clear anxiety for the toy-line being cancelled) I'd say changes need to be made. Mass audience of 8-13 year-olds? There is nothing large/massive about an audience of 8-13 year-old North American males (the primary target audience of the Beyblade Hasbro line). Pokemon made many strong business choices to increase their audience range (which had similar to Beyblade's), which, in turn, made them the bigger company.
The "meta" is created by hardcore fans of the toys (WBO). All games are plagued with this. Marvel vs. Capcom 2, which has a tremendous amount of depth, is no less deep because the top tier characters are incredibly powerful. Additionally, Beyblade has many components you've omitted, but I digress. We can just disagree before this becomes a new talking point.
The Pokemon card game is deeper because the company made it that deep. Beyblade's card game was a "cash grab". This was a choice and a poor business decision,
which is my entire point about Hasbro.
"False comparison". You keep stating this, but I'm not sure why. Toy companies have changed, but reflecting on what worked as a company is a common business practice. In fact, the whole nostalgia craze we've been riding is essentially a reflection of what brought in money and repeating that. People have a shorter attention span, actually, and it's not just limited to children. Technology has changed, but children clamoured for their favourites and what they recognized from television just as much. Not sure where you're getting your information from, but the anime was essentially a commercial for Beyblades, which is why the plot came secondary. Same purchasing motivation as ever, which is why Dragoon, to this day, is still one of the most recognizable and popular (it connects!)
I am mostly just going to echo what Jinbee is saying. This entire debate all started with a post declaring the hate (criticism) on this board being unwarranted and then went down far too many paths. If you believe Hasbro is doing a fantastic job, and you're a fan of Hasbro, ilinnuc, that's great. Keep purchasing their products and supporting them as a company. We will remain more critical of the products we're purchasing and that's just fine. We're all hardcore fans and want the best products and company practices (this includes you).
We just have fundamental differences in how we perceive many of Hasbros business practice, and the complexity of the game.
You can't compare a fighting game that relies wholly on skill, like button combos and timing, to a spin top. It doesn't work. I'm not saying beyblade isn't complex, but the meta is dominated to the point where using an out of the box combo just wont work. In fighting games you can pick a character that's "weaker" than the rest, but if you're really good with the character it may not matter. For beyblade, if you want to use the Edge driver, you're going to get destroyed.
I'm sorry but I just cant agree with you on the Pokemon Vs Beyblade debate. The two are just so massively different, and Pokemons appeal is just bigger. Beyblade has died out twice, pokemon is still strong and will get a huge bump once the 2019 Switch game.
Once again I never said that the WBO has any sway on sales. It doesn't at all. I'm just saying everyone needs to be more constructive with their criticism, in my opinion. There is unwarranted hate for it. I'm someone who believes "IF you don't like it, don't buy it. But don't sway other peoples opinions." I'm not saying you were swaying others, or anyone specifically, but people (especially kids) can and will sway their opinions based on how others feel. Someone who may want to get that Old gen remake dual pack because they like it, but so many people ONLY negatively criticize it may and in some cases WILL make them feel differently.
Yes the anime is a commercial for the toys, this is why TT releases beyblades the same time the products are seen on TV. The same can be said about yu-gi-oh, Pokemon really any anime that has a major product tied to it, some more than others, but it still stays the same.
I've been making beyblade videos since the start of Metal fusion in the US, so I know how the child mindset has changed even since then. I see it every day in my comment section.
To finish off this debate though (it was actually really fun!) everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I think I'm right, you think you're right etc... and that's agood thing. I will still continue to support Hasbro for their releases, but will also discuss their apparent failures so far. Most of this will be public as well because i've voiced my concerns both here and on my YouTube channel. I think hasbro is doing a great job with their tops, they just need to stock and market better.