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Full Version: Banning light blue Dark Deathscyther?
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They all mention it is harder to take apart straight out of the box but it does not effect its performance. As 1234beyblade mentioned, "it is actually a lot more loose than my black D2s when using part combos such as Spread Defense/Orbit. But know one has mentioned anything about it loosing all of its clicks and still holding on because of its stickiness.
(Jan. 24, 2017  1:02 AM)Naru Blader Wrote: [ -> ]They all mention it is harder to take apart straight out of the box but it does not effect its performance. As 1234beyblade mentioned, "it is actually a lot more loose than my black D2s when using part combos such as Spread Defense/Orbit. But know one has mentioned anything about it loosing all of its clicks and still holding on because of its stickiness.

I think I used your D2 and this had happened to me. This is definitely not how any other D2 performs, as not even any other Layer sticks  like this.

I mentioned it in my first post here, but I think that the best decision would be for the judge to decide whether the Layer is too sticky to be legal.
(Jan. 24, 2017  1:02 AM)Naru Blader Wrote: [ -> ]But know one has mentioned anything about it loosing all of its clicks and still holding on because of its stickiness.

Eh FIREFIRE CPB and Basedsamuraij have clearly mentioned that, actually...
It's true they did mention it unclicking but not bursting, however, none of those events took place in a battle. As we can all cleary see there has been no reports of the blue D2 having an "unfair" advantage. Other than Hato's of course which I can't remember for the life of me. (Note, I am not saying Hato lied, I simply cannot remember.)
I do think that FIREFIRE's happened in a battle, whether he mentioned that here or in the Organizers' Circle.
My oppoligies
I have this version of it and it's near mint. I haven't experienced any of these sticky super powers unfortunately. It behaves normally...

Maybe there are sticky variants?
Sorry for double-post and bumping.

But I did some combo testing with my yellow DeathScyther and ... sticky yellow DeathScyther exists?

In this video I demonstrate it. I know there's a shelf that holds it in place at the end with all Burst, but here I try my best to show that it's simply holding onto itself.  https://www.instagram.com/p/BPwgq2Gh0-s/...juncction_ Usually burst beys cannot stay together in the position where the metal posts are.

Edit: I still need to test this some more.
(Jan. 27, 2017  7:40 AM)juncction Wrote: [ -> ]Sorry for double-post and bumping.

But I did some combo testing with my yellow DeathScyther and ... sticky yellow DeathScyther exists?

In this video I demonstrate it. I know there's a shelf that holds it in place at the end with all Burst, but here I try my best to show that it's simply holding onto itself.  https://www.instagram.com/p/BPwgq2Gh0-s/...juncction_ Usually burst beys cannot stay together in the position where the metal posts are.

Edit: I still need to test this some more.

Ah thank you for the video. I do not know why you would need to test this more, since it is rather clear that it behaves differently to all other Layers. 

It did seem weird to me that only the light blue Dark Deathscyther would have this issue, when the yellow one came in the same release and appears to be made of the same materials. 

@[FIREFIRE CPB], does your blue Dark Deathscyther behave like in juncction's video? Is that basically what you wanted to show us?
Yes mine has kinda same issue as that. Though those metal parts of disk that we see from above goes all the way to end (I mean at position it burst. Let's say -1 clicks lol) and still holds itself without bursting

Though in battle it burst without problem most of time (though it sometime gets stuck and when I lift it, it bursts. But that doesn't happen that offent)

I will try to get video up asap (I want test it little more in video with for example other drivers and what's causing it)

edit:- It's kinda off-topic but a friend of mine has a D2 which he says is even more sticky then mine. I will try to get it too and test and compare em

edit2:- Guys those who all have "sticky" mold of D2 can check and tell me what mold number it is? maybe it's has to do something with mold it's made in? I mean it maybe defective

edit:- mine blue has blue part of mold A4 and Clear of Mold A4 (yes it has 2 mold number) and yellow A1 and Clear is too A1

I just tried Yellow with Orbit driver and it's slightly sticky too but no where near as Blue

Maybe it has to do with Orbit Driver?
I got both the blue version and the yellow from the the booster and they're both sticky
To me it seems like the general consensus so far is that there is indeed a "sticky" mold of Dark Deathscyther, but that the actual in-game effects of this are either negligible or very difficult to discern. I don't think anyone here is picking up their "sticky" Deathscyther mid-battle from the top tightly and having it stay stuck either; they don't seem to be that tightly "stuck" together ...

I do also think that if this was a real concern for its in-game effects, we might have heard something from TAKARA-TOMY by now too, especially with D2 as one of the top two Layers in the game over in Japan right now.
(Jan. 28, 2017  4:05 AM)Kei Wrote: [ -> ]To me it seems like the general consensus so far is that there is indeed a "sticky" mold of Dark Deathscyther, but that the actual in-game effects of this are either negligible or very difficult to discern. I don't think anyone here is picking up their "sticky" Deathscyther mid-battle from the top tightly and having it stay stuck either; they don't seem to be that tightly "stuck" together ...

I do also think that if this was a real concern for its in-game effects, we might have heard something from TAKARA-TOMY by now too, especially with D2 as one of the top two Layers in the game over in Japan right now.

Well, nobody picks up their Beyblade mid-game or mid-spin anyway, but some Bladers are indeed reporting that at the end of some of their battles, their Dark Deathscyther Dual Layer was in a position where it should have burst and been defeated, yet it was stuck in that 'negative' position. 

TAKARA-TOMY is rather slow and reluctant at taking decisions. Deathscyther was clearly bannable in Japan many months before they decided to retire it from the metagame. Who knows if they are even aware of this 'stickiness' issue in those two Dark Deathscyther moulds... I really do not know why we should rely on TAKARA-TOMY for any decision anytime hah. They want to make profit and, more and more, they are proving that they care very little about the quality of the play...
(Jan. 28, 2017  4:10 AM)Kai-V Wrote: [ -> ]Well, nobody picks up their Beyblade mid-game or mid-spin anyway, but some Bladers are indeed reporting that at the end of some of their battles, their Dark Deathscyther Dual Layer was in a position where it should have burst and been defeated, yet it was stuck in that 'negative' position. 

TAKARA-TOMY is rather slow and reluctant at taking decisions. Deathscyther was clearly bannable in Japan many months before they decided to retire it from the metagame. Who knows if they are even aware of this 'stickiness' issue in those two Dark Deathscyther moulds... I really do not know why we should rely on TAKARA-TOMY for any decision anytime hah. They want to make profit and, more and more, they are proving that they care very little about the quality of the play...

I'm not saying that this scenario is impossible! Just that it's perhaps an edge-case scenario and that in most situations, it doesn't seem to give the "sticky" D2 any discernible advantage (at least in my testing and the others in this thread who have expressed similar doubts). If we are to impose any rule about this mold of D2, perhaps it is a specific rule for players to not touch their Beyblades until the judge has announced a decision for the round or match (meaning they should inspect a yellow/blue D2 at the end of each round it 'wins' before anybody touches it to see if it should have technically bursted).

I think it's impossible that they don't care given their level of involvement in competitive play over there and considering the volume of tournaments they run (they even talked about D2GO in a CoroCoro recently, which surely must have been due to input from TT having observed what is happening at their events). To say they care very little about the 'quality of play' (purely in terms of what the metagame is like, not the quality of the product itself) isn't true from my perspective. I think the 'quality of play' has more to do with the conservative attitude of Japanese players in big G1 events than anything else. G4 events are filled with a lot of interesting and fun combinations, our tournaments are more diverse, and the WBOxWARIBEY event last year was very diverse too with a lot of the players finding consistent success with things like Valkyrie versus Deathscyther, which we know in our reality doesn't really need to be banned. But Japanese players also probably thought that us banning Odin wasn't necessary. The environment at G1 events is just completely different, and while I do think that is a reflection of the 'quality of play' in many important ways, I don't think we should necessarily take the metagame at the top events in Japan to represent the entire 'quality of play' for the series. But I digress, this is getting a little off-topic haha ...

I'm not saying our decision should be based on what they do (obviously, or else we would ban Deathscyther too), but that we might have heard about it by now if it was a real issue; either from TT themselves or from reports by Japanese players or teams like WARI-BEY talking about how it is clearly superior.
I think the fact that it took Deathscyther dominating their Grade 1 events after so many months of that Layer clearly dominating in Japan is a sign that they are not actually in touch with what goes on in competitive play... Sincerely, in Metal Fight Beyblade I would have totally defended them, but now I am really not as certain about that. Burst seems so rushed.

I get that Japanese fans are dead serious and thorough with their Beyblade purchases and testing, but what if they either did not talk about it publicly, or do not know about it yet? That is still a possibility.


But yes, verification before and/or after battles involving those Dark Deathscythers might be all it needs, since they do not seem to have a problem reaching that last tooth cavity. It is just getting up and out of that last hole that is the issue, it seems.
Why is this such a big issue? There's far more good reports then bad. Only 2 people have mentioned this bey acting up.
(Jan. 28, 2017  9:52 PM)Naru Blader Wrote: [ -> ]Why is this such a big issue? There's far more good reports then bad. Only 2 people have mentioned this bey acting up.

Because d2 is very versatile part as is if this sticky issue can cause it to not burst as some claim to have then this can throw a massive wrench in a already near broken meta game and this has been known since they first came out but now since since most players have gotten their hands on these it is becoming a more prevalent issue  and the last thing we need I blader said loosing rounds or even matches due to this flaw in the design.
True, but from testing we can show that the blue D2 actually doesn't perform any better then the black.
(Jan. 29, 2017  3:55 PM)Naru Blader Wrote: [ -> ]True, but from testing we can show that the blue D2 actually doesn't perform any better then the black.

No proper test results have been posted here. All that has been written is that some people do not notice a difference, while others realise that their Beyblade was supposed to have burst at the end of some battles but was stukc together. Did the first group of people simply not realise that their Layer was in a position where it was supposed to have separated from the rest of the Beyblade? Perhaps.
I really don't find this a big deal for one yes there has been reports of the the blue d2 sticking, but if we simply have a judge inspect the blue d2 before and after the battle if someone does use it, then it's there call wether or not it is legal. End of story
(Jan. 30, 2017  4:01 AM)Naru Blader Wrote: [ -> ]I really don't find this a big deal for one yes there has been reports of the the blue d2 sticking, but if we simply have a judge inspect the blue d2 before and after the battle if someone does use it, then it's there call wether or not it is legal. End of story
But how is the judge supposed to know what constitutes legal vs illegal levels of stickiness? Also, this adds more work for the judges because if stickiness does increase Burst resistance, most competitive Bladers will try to use their most borderline legal parts in order to gain an advantage. Any time anyone uses the restricted mold, the judge will have to inspect it and decide its legality, which adds a lot of stress and uncertainty for both the Bladers and judge.
(Jan. 30, 2017  4:01 AM)Naru Blader Wrote: [ -> ]I really don't find this a big deal for one yes there has been reports of the the blue d2 sticking, but if we simply have a judge inspect the blue d2 before and after the battle if someone does use it, then it's there call wether or not it is legal. End of story

I guess for me it's three-fold.

The first is the innate edge of using something that has that extra trait. Meaning, why would you ever use any other Dark Deathscyther if the yellow and blue ones have the additional benefit of sticking sometimes and giving you a higher chance of winning?

The second is, it can over complicate things and add time. Can you imagine a judge inspecting the bey before you use it and it clears the test, and then you win, and they inspect it after but it "stuck"?  For one you'd have to battle AGAIN, but also,  you'd have to swap to a different Dark Deathscyther, and if you didn't have one you'd be out of luck. Or, you could test your luck with the blue/yellow one, then if it gets stuck, use a completely brand new black Deathscyther for the re-do which further implicates the problem and gives you a further edge. It's not in the spirit of the game. 

And the third is that it is most likely a defect. Takara Tomy most likely did not intend for this to happen. I didn't realize jp0t discussed it in her unboxing (which is here: https://youtu.be/okbr1-zR_-Y?t=555). Her's is much more sticky than mine. It should NOT be doing that.

Overall it just has a negative impact on the game and the people playing it.
But it doesn't have an avantage is what I'm trying to get at here. It's a judges job to inspect and make sure the bey is legal. Asking all judges to simply check if the bey is sticky or not isn't a big deal to implement. The could check by doing a small test like grabbing the bey mid spin. If the bey sticks and doesn't burst then it's not legal if the bey does burst then it's legal.
(Jan. 30, 2017  8:03 PM)Naru Blader Wrote: [ -> ]But it doesn't have an avantage is what I'm trying to get at here. It's a judges job to inspect and make sure the bey is legal. Asking all judges to simply check if the bey is sticky or not isn't a big deal to implement. The could check by doing a small test like grabbing the bey mid spin. If the bey sticks and doesn't burst then it's not legal if the bey does burst then it's legal.

This adds more work for the judges, though, and we have no idea (yet) if that kind of test is accurate enough to determine whether it will perform correctly in battle. If we can simplify it to "Blue/yellow Deathscyther from this random booster is illegal" or "All Deathscyther molds are legal", it's only a matter of visual identification which anyone, judge or not, can do.
I don't own this part, but it sounds like a manufacturing error, honestly. I'd say if one specific variation of a part functions abnormally in a way that gives it an advantage over every single other variation, that could potentially be grounds for a ban. If any action were to be taken, I would say ban over judge inspection, as determining whether or not a part is "too sticky" could be fairly subjective and potentially lead to conflict between the player or his/her parents and the judge.

I'm just envisioning a situation in which two players have D2 but only one gets approval and the other player's parent starts questioning the decision lol
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