(Jun. 26, 2015 2:36 AM)UltimateOrion Wrote: [ -> ]MF-L Hell Cancer 230CS VS MF-H Lightning L-Drago CH120R2F
Hell:6/20(4 KO 2 OS)
Lightning:14/20 (14 KO)
Hell Win Rate:30%
OMG i'm so bad with Left spin attack XD i got 70% for Hell on CH120 and 65% for CH145... i got a lot better results with omega, 25% win rate for Hell. (My LRF was brand new so that could have been a possible problem haha) (also was using A1 no paint Hell metal)
(Aug. 09, 2014 8:22 PM)Leone19 Wrote: [ -> ]Since I'll be offline for the next week, I'd love to see someone do tests with Hell 230 CS, since that's the main reason stated that Hell had to be banned.
I did some testing with the hell 230cs combo against my limited combo flame 145es, and flame won every time, I think that it should be unbanned.
(Jun. 26, 2015 5:49 AM)blader1000x Wrote: [ -> ] (Aug. 09, 2014 8:22 PM)Leone19 Wrote: [ -> ]Since I'll be offline for the next week, I'd love to see someone do tests with Hell 230 CS, since that's the main reason stated that Hell had to be banned.
I did some testing with the hell 230cs combo against my limited combo flame 145es, and flame won every time, I think that it should be unbanned.
Wow really? That Flame combo isn't even good.
(Jun. 26, 2015 5:49 AM)blader1000x Wrote: [ -> ] (Aug. 09, 2014 8:22 PM)Leone19 Wrote: [ -> ]Since I'll be offline for the next week, I'd love to see someone do tests with Hell 230 CS, since that's the main reason stated that Hell had to be banned.
I did some testing with the hell 230cs combo against my limited combo flame 145es, and flame won every time, I think that it should be unbanned.
I think results would be mandatory for proof of such an occasion.
What would be interesting to see is Hell 230CS against a Dark Knight Girago LTAC. While we see that Lightning got decent results in UltimateOrion's testing, Girago is a bit more capable of late-game KO's, which can be kind of beneficial against Hell if it doesn't get one earlier one in the match.
And blader1000x- that's pretty surprising. A combo with a high track and a bottom with a decent amount of stamina shouldn't be losing against a lower stamina combo, not to mention one with very little LAD.
(Jun. 26, 2015 3:05 PM)Mitsu Wrote: [ -> ]What would be interesting to see is Hell 230CS against a Dark Knight Girago LTAC. While we see that Lightning got decent results in UltimateOrion's testing, Girago is a bit more capable of late-game KO's, which can be kind of beneficial against Hell if it doesn't get one earlier one in the match.
The thing is that combo would be too low since hell is extremely tall; you would have to use CH120 on that Girago to even get some hits on it.
MF-H Hell Cancer 230RS VS MF-H Lightning L-Drago CH120RF
Hell: 7/10(7 OS)
Lightning:3/10(3 KO)
Hell Win Rate:70%
MF-H Hell Cancer 230RS VS MF-H Lightning L-Drago CH120(145 mode)RF
Hell:5/10(2 KO 3 OS)
Lightning:5/10(5 KO)
Hell Win Rate:50%
MF-M Hell Uranus 85RF VS MF-H Libra 230RS
Hell:4/10(4 KO)
Libra:6/10(6 OS)
Hell Win Rate:40%
MF-M Hell Uranus 85MF VS MF-H Libra CH120RF
Hell:13/20
Libra:7/20
Hell Win Rate:65%
MF-M Hell Uranus 85MF VS MF-L Scythe Aquario W145WD
Hell:14/20(14 KO)
Scythe:6/20(3 KO 3OS)
MF-M Hell Uranus 85MF VS MF-M Leone 85RF
Hell:1/10(1 KO)
Leone:9/10(9 KO)
Hell Win Rate:10%
I did 10 rounds on most of these because i didn't want to wear out my parts.
1234Beyblade has so many tests.
I've done Hell F230GCF vs. Burn 90MF but unfortunately that's all I had time for today.
MF-L Hell Kerbecs F230GCF vs. MF-L Burn Cancer 90MF
Kerbecs: 4 wins (3 KO, 1 OS)
Cancer: 16 wins (4 KO, 12 OS)
Kerbecs win rate: 20%
Pretty sad display, despite the fact I was using a TT Orange F230.
I have a total of about 35 different tests, i will try my best to post them today since i'm going away to my cottage tomorrow. (Took 8 hours and about 720 round tests to get these results haha, i'm really determined to get Hell un-banned)
(Jun. 26, 2015 2:41 PM)UltimateOrion Wrote: [ -> ] (Jun. 26, 2015 5:49 AM)blader1000x Wrote: [ -> ] (Aug. 09, 2014 8:22 PM)Leone19 Wrote: [ -> ]Since I'll be offline for the next week, I'd love to see someone do tests with Hell 230 CS, since that's the main reason stated that Hell had to be banned.
I did some testing with the hell 230cs combo against my limited combo flame 145es, and flame won every time, I think that it should be unbanned.
Wow really? That Flame combo isn't even good.
Thats what I thought, then I tried It out, it can take an uppercut like any important character to battle Benkei's bull
(Jun. 26, 2015 2:45 PM)1234beyblade Wrote: [ -> ] (Jun. 26, 2015 5:49 AM)blader1000x Wrote: [ -> ] (Aug. 09, 2014 8:22 PM)Leone19 Wrote: [ -> ]Since I'll be offline for the next week, I'd love to see someone do tests with Hell 230 CS, since that's the main reason stated that Hell had to be banned.
I did some testing with the hell 230cs combo against my limited combo flame 145es, and flame won every time, I think that it should be unbanned.
I think results would be mandatory for proof of such an occasion.
Two sleep outs and hell was even flipped on its face the third time.
(Jun. 26, 2015 10:53 PM)blader1000x Wrote: [ -> ] (Jun. 26, 2015 2:41 PM)UltimateOrion Wrote: [ -> ] (Jun. 26, 2015 5:49 AM)blader1000x Wrote: [ -> ]I did some testing with the hell 230cs combo against my limited combo flame 145es, and flame won every time, I think that it should be unbanned.
Wow really? That Flame combo isn't even good.
Thats what I thought, then I tried It out, it can take an uppercut like any important character to battle Benkei's bull
(Jun. 26, 2015 2:45 PM)1234beyblade Wrote: [ -> ] (Jun. 26, 2015 5:49 AM)blader1000x Wrote: [ -> ]I did some testing with the hell 230cs combo against my limited combo flame 145es, and flame won every time, I think that it should be unbanned.
I think results would be mandatory for proof of such an occasion.
Two sleep outs and hell was even flipped on its face
You have to do 20 rounds.
(Jun. 26, 2015 11:03 PM)UltimateOrion Wrote: [ -> ] (Jun. 26, 2015 10:53 PM)blader1000x Wrote: [ -> ] (Jun. 26, 2015 2:41 PM)UltimateOrion Wrote: [ -> ]Wow really? That Flame combo isn't even good.
Thats what I thought, then I tried It out, it can take an uppercut like any important character to battle Benkei's bull
(Jun. 26, 2015 2:45 PM)1234beyblade Wrote: [ -> ]I think results would be mandatory for proof of such an occasion.
Two sleep outs and hell was even flipped on its face
You have to do 20 rounds.
Challenge accepted!!!
After 20 rounds of MF2-F Flame Aquario 145ES V.S MF2-H Hell Leone 230CS, Flame one 15 rounds while Hell only one 5. I still say Hell should be unbanned in hopes of better combos.
So here are the few tests that i did that will hopefully help in the un-banning of hell.
R2F's were all prime, usually by the end they proved useless, the LRF was brand new, RS' were all brand new and so was the CS. F230 was the brown one, on my stream you can see that the F230 was really good. EWD was a bit worn and had a small flat part on the bottom but did not really affect the performance.
Hell Combos: MF-H Hell Horuseus 85R2F, MF-H Hell Cancer 85RS, MF-H Hell Cancer 230CS, MF-H Hell Cancer F230GCF, Hell Cancer B: D and Hell Cancer 85WD/EWD.
Benchmark:
MSF-H Bahamdia Ifraid CH120RF vs MSF-M Reviser Reviser BD145RDF:
*Reviser launched first in all rounds.*
Bahamdia Ifraid: wins 7/20 (all KO's)
Reviser Reviser: wins 13/20 (all OS')
Bahamdia Ifraid CH120RF 35% win rate.
MF-H Hell Horuseus 85R2F:
Vs. Attack:
MF-H Hell Horuseus 85R2F vs MF-H Omega Gemoise CH120R2F
*Launch alternation every 10 rounds*
Hell: Wins 12/20 (5 KO's, 7 OS')
Omega: Wins 6/20 (All KO's)
Hell Horuseus 60% Win Rate
MF-H Hell Horuseus 85R2F vs MF-H Lightning L-drago CH120LRF
*Launch alternation every 10 rounds*
Hell: Wins 12/20 (8 KO's, 4 OS')
Lightning: Wins 8/20 (All KO's)
Hell Horuseus 60% Win Rate
Vs. Defense:
MF-H Hell Horuseus 85R2F vs MF Libra 85RS
*Libra launched first all rounds*
Hell: Wins 7/20 (All KO's)
Libra: Wins 13/20 (4 KO's, 9 OS')
Two draws
Hell Horuseus 35% Win Rate
MF-H Hell Horuseus 85R2F vs MF Libra 230RS
*Libra launched first all rounds*
Hell: Wins 5/20 (All KO's)
Libra: Wins 15/20 (3 KO's, 12 OS')
Hell Horuseus 25% Win Rate
Vs. Stamina:
MF-H Hell Horuseus 85R2F vs MF-L Scythe Aquario W145EWD
*Scythe launched first in all rounds*
Hell: Wins 18/20 (All KO's)
Scythe: Wins 2/20 (1 KO, 1 OS)
One draw
Hell Horuseus 90% Win Rate
MF-H Hell Horuseus 85R2F vs MF-F Burn Cygnus 85EWD
*Burn launched first in all rounds*
Hell: Wins 16/20 (All KO's)
Burn: Wins 4/20 (All OS')
Hell Horuseus 80% Win Rate
Vs. Balance:
MF-H Hell Horuseus 85R2F vs MF Libra TH170D
*Libra launched first in all rounds*
Hell: Wins 14/20 (All KO's)
Libra: Wins (2 KO's, 4 OS')
Hell Horuseus 70% Win Rate
TH195 Mode
Hell: Wins 9/20 (All KO's)
Libra: Wins 11/20 (3 KO's, 8 OS')
Two draws
Hell Horuseus 45% Win Rate
TH220 Mode
Hell: Wins 5/20 (All KO's)
Libra: Wins 15/20 (4 KO's, 11 OS')
Three draws
Hell Horuseus 25% Win Rate
Hell Horuseus 85R2F vs MF-H Duo Cancer 230MB
*Duo launched first in all rounds*
Hell: Wins 7/20 (All KO's)
Duo: Wins 13/20 (4 KO's, 9 OS')
One draw
Hell Horuseus 35% Win Rate
Side Note: I have no idea how i managed to get such ridiculous results for these balance beys!
MF-H Hell Cancer 230CS:
Vs. Attack
MF-H Hell Cancer 230CS vs MF-H Omega Gemoise CH120R2F
*Hell launched first in all rounds*
Hell: Wins 17/20 (2 KO's, 15 OS')
Omega: Wins 3/20 (3 KO's)
Hell Cancer 85% Win Rate
CH145 Mode
Hell: Wins 5/20 (1 KO, 4 OS')
Omega: Wins 15/20 (All KO's)
Hell Cancer 25% Win Rate
MF-H Hell Cancer 230CS vs Lightning L-drago CH120LRF
*Hell launched first in all rounds*
Hell: Wins 14/20 (2 KO's, 12 OS')
Lightning: Wins 6/20 (All KO's)
Hell Cancer 70% Win Rate
CH145 Mode
Hell: Wins 13/20 (4 KO's, 9 OS')
Lightning: Wins 7/20 (All KO's)
Hell Cancer 65% Win Rate
Side Note: I am horrible with Lightning L-drago
MF-H Hell Cancer 230CS vs MSF-H Dark Knight Girago CH120LRF
*Hell launched first in all rounds*
Hell: Wins 6/20 (All OS')
Girago: Wins 14/20 (All KO's)
Five Draws
Hell Cancer 30% Win Rate
Vs. Stamina
MF-H Hell Cancer 230CS vs MF-F Burn Cygnus 85EWD
*Hell launched first in all rounds*
Hell: Wins 10/10 (All OS')
Burn: Wins 0 LOL
Hell Cancer 100% Win Rate
MF-H Hell Cancer 230CS vs MF-L Scythe Aquario W145EWD
*10 round launch alternation*
Hell: Wins 16/20 (All OS')
Scythe: Wins 4/20 (All OS')
Hell Cancer 80% Win Rate
Vs. Balance
MF-H Hell Cancer 230CS vs MF Libra TH170D
*10 round launch alternation*
Hell: Wins 6/20 (All OS')
Libra: Wins 14/20 (5 KO's, 9 OS')
Two draws
Hell Cancer 30 Win Rate
MF-H Hell Cancer 230CS vs MF-H Duo Cancer 230TB
*10 round launch alternation*
Hell: Wins 10/20 (8 KO's, 2 OS')
Duo: Wins 10/20 (1 KO, 9 OS')
Hell Cancer 50% Win Rate
Vs. Defense
MF-H Hell Cancer 230CS vs MF Libra 230RS
*10 round launch alternation*
Hell: Wins 9/20 (3 KO's, 6 OS')
Libra: Wins 11/20 (3 KO's, 8 OS')
Hell Cancer 45% Win Rate
MF-H Hell Cancer 85RS:
Vs. Attack
MF-H Hell Cancer 85RS vs MF-H Omega Gemoise CH120R2F
*Hell launched first in all rounds*
Hell: Wins 12/20 (5 KO's, 7 OS')
Omega: Wins 8/20 (All KO's)
One draw
Hell Cancer 60% Win Rate
MF-H Hell Cancer 85RS vs MSF-H Dark Knight Girago CH120LRF
*Hell launched first in all rounds*
Hell: Wins 18/20 (10 KO's, 8 OS')
Girago: Wins 2/20 (1 KO, 1 OS)
One Draw
Hell Cancer 90% Win Rate
MF-H Hell Cancer 85RS vs MF-H Pegasis CH120R2F
*Hell launched first in all rounds*
Hell: Wins 10/20 (5 KO's, 5 OS')
Pegasis: Wins 10/20 (All KO's)
Five draws
Hell Cancer 50% Win Rate
Vs. Defense
MF-H Hell Cancer 85RS vs MF Libra 85RS
*Five round launch alternation*
Hell: Wins 1/10 (1 KO)
Libra: Wins 9/10 (All OS')
Hell Cancer 10% Win Rate
Hell Cancer 85WD/EWD:
Vs. Attack
Hell Cancer 85EWD vs MF-H Omega Gemoise CH120R2F
*Hell launched first in all rounds*
Hell: Wins 5/20 (2 KO's, 3 OS')
Omega: Wins 15/20 (All KO's)
Five draws
Hell Cancer 25% Win Rate
Hell Cancer 85EWD vs MF-H Lightning L-drago CH120LRF
*Hell launched first in all rounds*
Hell: Wins 6/20 (3 KO's, 3 OS')
Lightning: Wins 14/20 (All KO's)
One draw
Hell Cancer 30% Win Rate
Vs. Stamina
Hell Cancer 85WD vs MF-L Scythe Aquario W145EWD
*10 round launch alternation*
Hell: Wins 6/20 (All KO's)
Scythe: Wins 14/20 (10 KO's, 4 OS')
One draw
Hell Cancer 30% Win Rate
Hell Cancer 85EWD vs Libra B: D
*10 round launch alternation*
Hell: Wins 8/20 (2 KO's, 6 OS')
Libra: Wins 12/20 (8 KO's, 4 OS')
Hell Cancer 40% Win Rate
Hell Cancer B: D:
Vs. Stamina
Hell Cancer B: D vs MF-L Scythe Aquario W145EWD
*5 round launch alternation*
Hell: Wins 10/20 (8 KO's, 2 OS')
Scythe: Wins 10/20 (8 KO's, 2 OS')
Hell Cancer 50% Win Rate
Vs. Balance
Hell Cancer B: D vs MF Libra TH170D
*10 round launch alternation*
Hell: Wins 8/20 (All KO's)
Libra: Wins 12/20 (All KO's)
Hell Cancer 40% Win Rate
TH195 Mode
*5 round launch alternation*
Hell: Wins 2/10 (1 KO, 1 OS)
Libra: Wins 8/10 (5 KO's, 3 OS')
One draw
Hell Cancer 20% Win Rate
TH220 Mode
*5 round launch alternation*
Hell: Wins 5/10 (4 KO's, 1 OS)
Libra: Wins 5/10 (4 KO's, 1 OS)
Hell Cancer 50% Win Rate
Hell Cancer B: D vs MF-H Duo Cancer 230TB
*10 round launch alternation*
Hell: Wins 8/20 (All KO's)
Duo: Wins 12/20 (1 KO, 11 OS')
Hell Cancer 40% Win Rate
MF-H Hell Cancer F230GCF:
Vs. Stamina
MF-H Hell Cancer F230GCF vs MF-L Scythe Cancer W145EWD
*Scythe launched first in all rounds, Hell banked*
Hell: Wins 8/20 (All KO's)
Scythe: Wins 12/20 (5 KO's, 7 OS')
Hell Cancer 40% Win Rate
Vs. Balance
MF-H Hell Cancer F230GCF vs MF-H Libra 230D
*Libra launched first in all rounds, Hell banked*
Hell: Wins 11/20 (All KO's)
Libra: Wins 9/20 (4 KO's 5 OS')
Hell Cancer 55% Win Rate
Here are some pictures of the parts after the tests:
Hopefully these tests help in the un-banning of the Hell wheel in Limited format! A Six hour video of the tests is being uploaded to my youtube channel and I will add it to this post after it is done. The video does not include tests of MF-H Hell Horuseus 85R2F!
Decided to try Hell out to seem if it should be unbanned or continue to be banned. I only have two tests done, but those two tests really have persuaded me to keep Hell banned. I used MF-H Hell (Hasbro Version) Horuseus 90 RF.
Set Up
BB-10
L/R Launcher
Green 3 Segment Launcher Grip with Red Grip Rubber and Extension.
RSF pretty calm, RS pretty new and good, RF Good condition, Hell pretty used, Libra pretty used.
Part Breakdown for MF-H Hell Horuseus 90 RF
MF-H: Heaviest option for a face bolt
Hell: Use Hell obviously because this whole thread is about it.
Horuseus: I personally love Horuseus for LTAC, adds a little bit of upper power to it IMO.
90: I feel 90 is better than 85 in the current meta game due to the amount of 230 customs. Personally it seems like it does indeed make differences to the combo.
RF: I do not actually have any good R2F's or LRF's left so I had to use RF
Part Breakdown for MF-H Libra GB145 RSF
MF-H: This is a defense custom so MF-H is basically mandatory to give it enough weight to be able to go against Attack
Libra: Best Metal wheel for Defense, heavy and round making it great for defensive purposes and it does have an alright amount of stamina.
GB145: I needed a 145 track for defense and GB145 was the first that came to mind and it does seem to get the job done.
RSF: Nice Rubber defensive tip with an alright amount of stamina for a rubber tip and can take hits.
Part Breakdown for MF-H Libra 230 RS
MF-H: Once again this is a defense type so I did need the heaviest face for this.
Libra: Heavy and Round, really good for defense and does have alright stamina to go with it.
230: Wanted a tall track and 230 is the tallest height.
RS: Ridiculous for defense, a tiny sharp rubber point. It makes this combo like a tall brick tower.
------------------------------The Tests------------------------------
MF-H Hell Horuseus 90 RF vs
MF-H Libra GB145 RSF
MF-H Hell Horuseus 90 RF: 15 (15 KO)
MF-H Libra GB145 RSF: 5 (3 OS, 2 KO)
MF-H Hell Horuseus 90 RF Win Percentage:
75%
Detailed Results
1. Hell KO
2. Hell KO
3. Libra OS
4. Hell KO
5. Hell KO
6. Hell KO
7. Hell KO
8. Hell KO
9. Libra OS
10. Libra KO
11. Hell KO
12. Hell KO
13. Hell KO
14. Libra KO
15. Hell KO
16. Hell KO
17. Hell KO
18. Hell KO
19. Libra OS
20. Hell KO
The times Libra Outspun Hell were due to many wall saves. The KO's were also from wall saves, except Hell was knocked out. In conclusion Hell completely destroyed Libra in this set.
MF-H Hell Horuseus 90 RF vs MF-H Libra 230 RS
MF-H Hell Horuseus 90 RF: 8 (8 KO)
MF-H Libra 230 RS: 12 (11 OS, 1 KO)
MF-H Hell Horuseus 90 RF Win Percentage:
40%
Detailed Results
1. Libra OS
2. Libra KO
3. Hell KO
4. Libra OS
5. Hell KO
6. Hell KO
7. Libra OS
8. Libra OS
9. Libra OS
10. Hell KO
11. Hell KO
12. Libra OS
13. Libra Os
14. Hell KO
15. Libra OS
16. Libra OS
17. Libra OS
18. Libra OS
19. Hell KO
20. Hell KO
This match was actually really ridiculous. Even when Hell didn't KO Libra it was still able to bang it around a lot. Libra's KO appeared to be a bit of luck so if you were to test this don't count on it happening much, unless something really weird occurs. I still think Hell was quite powerful in these tests, honestly imagine if it would have been on a 145 track against 230. Pretty sure Hell would have destroyed it considering it got such a high win rate on 90.
So there were the two tests I did. I personally think Hell is still to strong to bring into Limited Format, but that is my opinion.
(Jun. 26, 2015 11:06 PM)The Real Libra Wrote: [ -> ]After 20 rounds of MF2-F Flame Aquario 145ES V.S MF2-H Hell Leone 230CS, Flame one 15 rounds while Hell only one 5. I still say Hell should be unbanned in hopes of better combos.
Have some further testing:
1 attack type stadium and the red and blue string launchers that came with it. Launches were alternated to remove any bias from one bey starting first or from launcher used.
Sonokong A4 Hell (Hell Kerbecs) - Minor wear
Sonokong A2 Kerbecs (Hell Kerbecs) - Unworn
Red Hasbro 230 (Flame Byxis) - Tiny scratches visible when lit
Grey Import CS (Ray Unicorno) - Slightly loose, a little aggressive on launch
Hasbro AA3 Flame (Source Unclear) - Minor wear
Hasbro AA4 Ionis (Forbidden Ionis) - Unworn
Clear Import 145 (Basalt Horogium) - Minor wear
Blue Hasbro ES (Phantom Orion?) -Unworn
Flame Ionis 145 ES: 16 (2KO, 14SO)
80%
Hell Kerbecs 230 CS: 4 (4SO)
20%
Draws: 2 (1KO, 1SO)
Hell's only wins were from downward angled sliding shoots to offbalance Flame early and fatally. It was otherwise completely incapable of winning this matchup.
Sonokong A4 Hell (Hell Kerbecs) - Minor wear
Sonokong A2 Kerbecs (Hell Kerbecs) - Unworn
Red Hasbro 230 (Flame Byxis) - Tiny scratches visible when lit
Yellow Hasbro CS (Double Pack) - No aggression or looseness
Hasbro AA3 Flame (Source Unclear) - Minor wear
Hasbro AA4 Ionis (Forbidden Ionis) - Unworn
Clear Import 145 (Basalt Horogium) - Minor wear
Trans Yellow Hasbro ES (Source Unclear) -Minor wear
Flame Ionis 145 ES: 3 (1KO, 2SO)
15%
Hell Kerbecs 230 CS: 17 (7KO, 10SO)
85%
Draws: 0
A quick change of parts totally changed the outcome, with fatal destabalization now Flame's only means of winning besides one random KO that could easily have been a draw had it not hit a wall.
Sonokong A4 Hell (Hell Kerbecs) - Minor wear
Sonokong A2 Kerbecs (Hell Kerbecs) - Unworn
Red Hasbro 230 (Flame Byxis) - Tiny scratches visible when lit
Yellow Hasbro CS (Double Pack) - No aggression or looseness
Hasbro AA3 Flame (Source Unclear) - Minor wear
Hasbro AA4 Ionis (Forbidden Ionis) - Unworn
Clear Import 145 (Basalt Horogium) - Minor wear
Blue Hasbro ES (Phantom Orion?) -Minor wear
Flame Ionis 145 ES: 7 (7SO)
35%
Hell Kerbecs 230 CS: 13 (1KO, 12SO)
65%
Draws: 2 (2SO)
Which bey destabilized which was by far the most important factor here, with launch order making no obvious difference. Many of Hell's wins came from the simple fact that higher beys can roll on the floor a tiny bit longer so there wasn't nearly as much in it as the results imply.
Sonokong A4 Hell (Hell Kerbecs) - Minor wear
Sonokong A2 Kerbecs (Hell Kerbecs) - Unworn
Red Hasbro 230 (Flame Byxis) - Tiny scratches visible when lit
Green Hasbro CS (Double Pack) - Ocassional miniscule aggression
Hasbro AA3 Flame (Source Unclear) - Minor wear
Hasbro AA4 Ionis (Forbidden Ionis) - Minor wear (from these tests)
Clear Import 145 (Basalt Horogium) - Minor wear
Blue Hasbro ES (Phantom Orion?) -Minor wear
Flame Ionis 145 ES: 15 (1KO, 14SO)
75%
Hell Kerbecs 230 CS: 5 (5SO)
25%
Draws: 2 (2SO)
Essentially the same as the last matchup, only with the tiniest loss in stamina causing hell to lose far more often.
The winner of any matchup between these combos is clearly determined more by the condition of parts than the combos themselves but I feel as though it's the smooth shape and small contact points of Flame that allow it to be as effective as it is, destablizing without taking any solid hits.
Those tests were quite interesting. Honestly I don't know how your Hell combo didn't completely destroy the Flame 145 ES combo. Hopefully my string launcher will come in from the Credits Campaign so I can try the match up myself but it just seems really odd. Given Hell's height and weight it honestly should have won despite how worn the parts were, but I don't know. Like I said when my Launcher comes in I can try that matchup and some more match ups with Hell.
That first testing doesn't reflect on what you got for the other ones. Pretty weird m8.
It's also no surprise that Hell had won against Flame. 230CS should generally be out-spinning MTSC, so it really had nothing to do with Hell unless your relying solely on it's recoil for KO's.
It is clear that Hell has some faults, But I still don't think it should be allowed in limited.
(Jul. 29, 2015 4:43 PM)Mitsu Wrote: [ -> ]That first testing doesn't reflect on what you got for the other ones. Pretty weird m8.
It's also no surprise that Hell had won against Flame. 230CS should generally be out-spinning MTSC, so it really had nothing to do with Hell unless your relying solely on it's recoil for KO's.
I was testing this because it was a matchup some had been getting weird results with and I believe I've shown that, despite what you might expect, 230CS isn't always going to have the advantage. Flame works as a destablizer and, depending on the quality of the tips, this can sometimes give it enough of an upper hand to dominate.
Some CSs will have too much rubber or too little of a point to maintain stamina at an andle and some ESs won't have as much balance as others.
Yes, the 230CS combo is generally better but there's more to this matchup than just that and you can hopefully now see why there have been discordant results.
How is Hell doing so bad against Libra for you guys? In an attack setup like Hell ____ W145R2F, I'm able to take out a Libra 230RS consistently.
Also, what's the reasoning behind someone using Hell 230CS in a competitive tournament?
(Jul. 29, 2015 7:37 PM)LMAO Wrote: [ -> ]How is Hell doing so bad against Libra for you guys? In an attack setup like Hell ____ W145R2F, I'm able to take out a Libra 230RS consistently.
Also, what's the reasoning behind someone using Hell 230CS in a competitive tournament?
Well that's because you're using it on a 145-height Track. Unless you know your opponent is going to use 230 W145R2F on Hell probably won't be as effective as something like 90/100/LW105/CH120 that lowers it a bit to take advantage of its shape. It's kind of like using CH120 on DK Zirago, although it works would you expect to face it in a tournament setting instead of 85 or 90 (unless your opponent knows what combo you will use)?
Back in the day before 4D Hell 230CS was a combo that could beat most other combos (I read somewhere that it was 90% but don't quote me on that) due to being a particularly hard to hit HTDC thanks to Hell's raised shape, and outward weight distribution gave it surprisingly good Stamina as well.
But, as a competitive set-up I doubt there is much of a difference of using either something on a 145 track or something like a 90 track, against other limited combinations? You'll pretty much never know lol (unless of course your opponent uses 230 a lot).
Oh, I see, but won't that be a problem since there are things like Jade and Omega (or even Lightning) that can counter it if used correctly (on a 145 spin track)? I should really do some tests, and see how it does with other competitive limited combinations.