(HAPPY APRIL FOOLS' DAY!)
Hello World Bladers!
Today we have a huge announcement regarding the Limited Format which many of you have come to know and love.
With the upcoming North American Championship being centred on the Format, as a committee, and with the input of a few other members, we have submitted the format to a highly stringent internal review process and have come to the conclusion that it has thus far failed to adequately fulfil its secret primary goal of becoming a format completely free of any remotely effective part. The systems already in place, including an extremely reactionary ban process that has been stymied by the risk of users catching on to the fact that the ban of Gravity (thus far the only part to become Banned since the format's inception) was just the first tumble down the slippery slope to the format's true goal. In the end, we have decided that rather than continue to maintain the illusion that Limited is actually a stable format where only a small number of changes from the starting banlist are at all likely, we will simply cut to the inevitable end goal that many sharp-eyed members pointed out: The complete removal of any remotely worthwhile part from the format!
As part of this rebranding, we have changed the banlist numbering to signify this, by jumping all the way to update 2.0, holding notions of technological advancement and modernity. In addition, we have devised a new logo for Limited Format, based around its central wheel, which can be seen at the top of this announcement!
::Limited Format V2.0 Ban List::
As a general rule, almost any part considered even remotely effective is banned from Limited Format V2.0, because there is simply no middle ground between 60g+ Synchroms and Wheels such as Poison and Dark. In addition to this, many new parts have been banned due to their wider availability making it likely they will overshadow wheels such as Poison and Dark. These therefore are the primary answers to "Why is this part banned", though we will provide detailed explanations on all legality rulings in the coming weeks. In the meantime, we have a short list of explanations as to why certain parts are
legal, based on those we thought people would be most curious about!
Legality Explanations v1.0 Wrote:Aries (Metal System): Aries is a reasonably heavy wheel, especially the premium returns version, however it has seen little testing showing it to be a threat, so while it will be watched closely, we have decided to leave it in Limited 2.0 for the time being.
Pisces (Metal System): Pisces, much like Aries, is a wheel on which we lack data, and it is not necessarily so heavy that it will present a problem. We strongly encourage users to test it but for the time being we have decided that it should remain legal in Limited 2.0.
Rock: While some have claimed it has use as a Tornado Stalling wheel, Rock has a long history of being derided as a useless or otherwise mediocre part. As such, we have opted to include it despite its relatively heavy weight.
Inferno: Again, some have indicated that Inferno is of similar or greater efficacy to Sagittario, a wheel which is a focal point of Limited 2.0 based on its status as a wheel used a somewhat of a joke by well known members in otherwise serious tournaments. Informal testing showed it does not appear to be a significant threat, however if it does turns out to overshadow our beloved Sagittario, the community has our word that Inferno will be quickly dealt with.
L Drago: A wheel that has seen some popularity in the past, L Drago has been included simply to make sure we still kept a Left-Spin wheel in Limited 2.0, as we as a committee decided differing spin directions were a vital element of Beyblade play, and L Drago was the least threatening option available due to its extremely light weight and the format's lack of metal faces with which it could compensate for this.
F230: Continuing our stance that F230 is absolutely not a problem in any format, we have opted to allow Zero-G's favourite track in Limited 2.0, where the lightweight L Drago is the only Left Spin Wheel.
Orojya: While we have generally not allowed any Zero-G Wheels in Limited 2.0 due to the fact they are too new and thus likely to overshadow wheels like Poison simply through wider availability from Hasbro, we decided to make an exception to Orojya based on the similarity of its design to Poison Serpent, the symbol of Limited 2.0. However, to make sure it does not overshadow Poison, we have banned all Crystal Wheels (as well as carrying over the Synchrom Ban from the original, failed incarnation of Limited Format), which should reduce the chance of it overshadowing the wheels Limited 2.0 is focused on to reasonable levels.
Orso: Our first Clear Wheel entry in this list, Orso is by far (~0.5g on all but one Clear Wheel) the heaviest Clear Wheel in Limited Format, thanks to the ban of nearly every other clear wheel over the weight of 2.8g. Orso has remained legal due to the fact we agreed that the face it comes with is particularly cool. Orso must therefore be used with the Orso face, which must also be in good condition.
Leone: Leone is perhaps the heaviest Wheel in Limited 2.0, and many of us had doubts about it. However one particular user who refused to mind their own business about the process (who will remain unnamed) insisted it was absolutely necessary for "proper gameplay balance in a tournament situation" and after hours of debate (resulting in the delay of this announcement), we eventually grew tired of arguing and decided that Leone would remain legal, but with the condition that it must be hand spun rather than launched.
Serpent: Serpent is the other Clear Wheel that has remained Legal despite being over the 2.8g Weight Limit imposed on that category of parts. This is quite simply a matter of the Format's new image, as Serpent was released alongside the Format's Central Wheel, Poison.
The full banlist for Limited Format V2.0 is as follows:
Quote:::Limited Format V2.0 Ban List::
Wheels (Metal System):
Banned:
All Wheels not listed as Legal.
Legal:
Aries
Capricorne
Escolpio
Gemios
L Drago
Leone (must be Hand Spun).
Pisces
Sagittario
Wolf
Metal Wheels:
Banned:
All Metal Wheels (Including 4D Metal Wheels) not listed as Legal.
Legal:
Cloud
Counter
Crash
Cyber
Dark
Death (Metal Fury)
Divine
Fang (Metal Fury)
Firefuse (Metal Fury)
Flame
Forbidden
Fury
Galaxy
Grand
Hyper
Inferno
Infinity (but not Thunder)
Jade (Metal Fury, Non-Hyperblade)
Killer
Mercury
Midnight
Night
Poison
Rock
Storm
Torch
Tornado
Wing (Metal Fury)
Light Wheels:
Banned:
None!
Legal:
All Light Wheels are Legal, and the use of a Light Wheel affords the user a one-round head start for the BeyBattle (i.e. they start at 1 – 0 in their favour, or 1 – 1 if both players are using Light Wheels).
Clear Wheels:
Banned:
All Clear Wheels over 2.8g (Hosts should weigh all Clear Wheels before Tournaments begin) not listed as Legal.
Legal:
Orso (when used with the Orso Face, which must be in good condition).
Serpent
All Clear Wheels under the weight of 2.8 grams
Chrome Wheels:
Banned:
All Synchroms
All Chrome Wheels not listed as Legal.
Legal:
Orojya
Crystal Wheels:
Banned:
All Crystal Wheels.
Tracks:
Banned:
85
90
100
145
160
230
AD145
BD145
CH120
D125
DF105
DF145
E230
GB145
H145
R145
S130
SA165
SP230
SR200
T125
TH170
TR145
W105 (due to SonoKong's 100-Height W105)
W145
Bottoms:
Banned:
BWD
CF
CS
D
EWD
GCF
LRF
MB
MF
PD
R2F
RB
RDF
RF
RS
RSF
SD (See 'Exceptions' section)
SWD
TB
WD
WF
XF
Exceptions
SD may be used in an uncustomized Poison Serpent SW145SD.
4D Bottoms:
Banned:
B: D
Faces
Banned:
All faces other than Metal Face Feather and Metal Stone Face Feather.
We hope the community will come to love this new Limited Format just as much as they did the previous, incomplete version, and quickly embrace the opportunity to use rarely-seen wheels such as Poison and Fury to their fullest capability!
That's all for now folks, we'll see you at Anime North 2014!
- World Beyblade Organization Committee
That's awesome news, I'm glad we finally decided to be honest with ourselves and everyone else about the true purpose of Limited - a Poison-centric Metagame!
Still kinda wish we'd given Leone something more than hand spinning but I guess that just means a lot of finger/wrist exercises for us all - good for our fitness, I think, as Leone should be worth the effort - I really love how this new incarnation of Limited focuses extremely hard on a blader's skills, even if that came at the cost of some of my favourite parts being legal.
This is truly a momentous day for the WBO.
I'll post what I think of here: (Note: this is an opinion, not an attacking post or an argument, I understand arguing with seniors will only get me warned)
Honestly I don't like the idea of banning EVERY remotely worthwhile part, and I'd rather put this separately rather than merge it to the current Limited Format.
Any argument about determining which parts should be legal and not from the old one will be for naught now, and that means the effort of many people (e.g Ingulit, "L", th!nk, TBD, etc etc) will go to waste if Limited is this way.
Really, the old one is fine anyway (I hardly saw any arguments on the threads) and we'll have more fun arguing about parts anyway.
Final Conclusion: I disagree with making Limited this way. The old one seems to be much better. Either separate this from the old one, or scrape off the idea altogether. That way, what th!nk said about a poison-centric metagame can still be true, while the old Limited would still allow parts this version doesn't,so in the end we made a huge number of parts viable, more than the old one would possibly allow.
Then again I'm not advanced, and I'm not commitee so I should just shut up anyway, hah.
EDIT: Sorry for unfinished post. Was on Ipad and accidentally clicked on the 'post reply'. pardon.
now my response to the people who posted while i was correcting. XD
Bishop: LOL what do you mean by your response?
@Th!nk: I'd agree that Poison centric metagames are fun to play in, but achieving that at the cost of banning a lot of parts, even if it's juuuuuuuust a bit viable, doesn't appeal to me. We don't ban Earth and Bakushin in the old one to open up Poison right?
And, the poison-centered metagame isn't our original goal anyway, I thought it's supposed to make a lot of wheels (or parts for that matter) viable, and what we're doing here is the opposite direction ,unless the new one and the old one is separate.
(Apr. 01, 2014 5:19 PM)RDF3 Wrote: [ -> ]I'll post what I think of here: (Note: this is an opinion, not an attacking post or an argument (I understand arguing with seniors will only get me warned)
Honestly I don't like the idea of banning EVERY remotely worthwhile part, and I'd rather put this separately rather than merge it to the current Limited Format.
Secondly, Limited was originally intended to make a huge number of parts previously deemed uncompetitive viable, and we have managed to do that (Bakushin, Earth
EDIT: Sorry for unfinished post. Was on Ipad and accidentally clicked on the 'post reply'. pardon.
I'll just respond to what you have posted so far while I'm here, I'll edit it if I notice you've included anything I haven't covered but yeah:
If you read the announcement carefully a fair bit of this is addressed - this is basically where Limited was inevitably going to end up anyway - you ban one strong part and you inevitably end up banning everything but the absolute worst parts, it's just a matter of time because there's not really a stable point where you can stop without one part being 'too powerful' and needing a ban. In the end, and this is only from what I heard and hopefully the staff don't mind me saying this, because it's really just hearsay, I think it was decided that with AN coming up, the format wasn't progressing quite fast enough through the natural means so it had to be given a bit of a push to reach its natural conclusion.
EDIT: Okay, so yeah basically I think the announcement already explains the entire thing, but I'll give you a little more background information from what I know - keep in mind though that I only see a small amount of the process so it might not be accurate.
The gist of it is that Limited as it stood before today would have ended up being this format anyway, as a number of people pointed out - you start banning one good part and you end up banning every part that is any good because something always rises to the top and therefore must be banned. Honestly, it was something mentioned during the early discussions about the format as a whole and a long-time concern about it, and based on that and the announcement, hopefully they won't mind me saying this - it is just speculation - but I think the idea of a poison-centric format was one that some of those involved in making it official liked, and that allowing Limited to naturally progress to that point as it inevitably would was basically seen as the best way to get that format into the Beypoints system - because there was a strong feeling that the format as it stands on this day wouldn't be taken seriously and thus not gain traction.
The reason that changed I guess is probably because of the decision to have Anime North in that format (presumably as it looked stable for a while) combined with the fact it became obvious over the weekend and even earlier (in particularly around the time a gravity ban started being discussed) that the format would simply not be balanced enough as long as any strong parts remained, and that just simply isn't acceptable for what is going to be the centrepiece of our biggest tournament of the year. In the end, the announcement came today, which I think is good - it's a date that gives people plenty of time to seriously consider the update's impact and based on that act appropriately before it comes into play.
Hand spinning Leone? I don't really underst-
Wait, wait, wait, wait. Good one.
XD
Hand-spinning actually makes Beyblade a sport, which is great because that is what everybody basically ever wanted.
Well, TBH only Gravity and Omega Metal Wheels in old Limited was argued about for quite a while (I argued about Fusion but they say 'nah it's broken') so I can't say for sure that we will end here.
I thought parts that are overpowered need to be banned, not strong. (i.e ban RDF and RS, but don't ban D or EWD. Ban MF Schyte, but not Earth).
Of course we won't reach a stable point. I missed the announcement, but here is my overview of the goals of Limited:
-Ban parts that make a huge amount of otherwise viable parts useless.
-Make a huge number of parts viable to use
-Have a dynamic banlist. The banlist will never be perfect even if we ban things that are REMOTELY VIABLE. That is a point.
The problem regarding AN and the banlist too slow to progress, for me, has a simple solution: allow non advanced members that possess significant knowledge (TBD, "L", TheWhiteTiger, Tri, Leone19.)
I think we gave the format too much push already. MF Schyte and Omega are the core of the problem, but now thanks to Limited Ver 2, many things that these two wreck now bit the dust. is that any better?
Again, no post-attacking intentions here, it's just an IMO.
Yes, this is arguably making all bad parts viable, which is revolutionary. Also, the use of Orojya without a crystal wheel is mind blowing.
(Apr. 01, 2014 6:12 PM)Dual Wrote: [ -> ]Yes, this is arguably making all bad parts viable, which is revolutionary. Also, the use of Orojya without a crystal wheel is mind blowing.
: I for one agree.But we're doing this at the cost of making more parts non-viable, so that isn't a good tradeoff in my opinion.
LOL How are you going to use the Orojya Chrome Wheel without a synchrom or a crystal wheels?
This format is awkward, honestly one of the reasons why I prefer the old one better.
The banlist is more complicated than the old one anyways.
It is a good trade off because with the genius' on the WBO, there will definitely be game breaking combinations that would have been discovered eventually. Plus, with Burn and Earth beginning to dominate in Chicago, and other parts on the rise in other places, this was definitely a smart move.
It's not too difficult actually. I find it works better with taller tracks.
(Apr. 01, 2014 6:09 PM)RDF3 Wrote: [ -> ]Well, TBH only Gravity and Omega Metal Wheels in old Limited was argued about for quite a while (I argued about Fusion but they say 'nah it's broken') so I can't say for sure that we will end here.
I thought parts that are overpowered need to be banned, not strong. (i.e ban RDF and RS, but don't ban D or EWD. Ban MF Schyte, but not Earth).
Of course we won't reach a stable point. I missed the announcement, but here is my overview of the goals of Limited:
-Ban parts that make a huge amount of otherwise viable parts useless.
-Make a huge number of parts viable to use
-Have a dynamic banlist. The banlist will never be perfect even if we ban things that are REMOTELY VIABLE. That is a point.
The problem regarding AN and the banlist too slow to progress, for me, has a simple solution: allow non advanced members that possess significant knowledge (TBD, "L", TheWhiteTiger, Tri, Leone19.)
I think we gave the format too much push already. MF Schyte and Omega are the core of the problem, but now thanks to Limited Ver 2, many things that these two wreck now bit the dust. is that any better?
Again, no post-attacking intentions here, it's just an IMO.
The issue with banlist progression was one of how quickly parts are adopted in competitive play, not one of actually getting it updated - it would simply take a lot of time for it to happen naturally, but it turned out there wasn't really a semblance of stability even along the way so it had to be pushed.
I think the banlist as it now stands is almost perfect - though actually now that you mention it I have something I might post soon that is causing me some concern from initial testing...
: Well, as I interpret it, the update basically says that the exception for Orojya is largely symbolic, it's part of the format's image, you know? Not sure whether using it without a crystal wheel is actually legal but for the time being I would be wary of planning to use it, okay?
(Apr. 01, 2014 6:08 PM)Kai-V Wrote: [ -> ]Hand-spinning actually makes Beyblade a sport, which is great because that is what everybody basically ever wanted.
This is an excellent point actually. You know, while it might end up making Leone too strong and then without it making the format too defensive, we could still consider the possibility of banning launchers...
Well, if so, Earth and those poor wheels we banned, where will they go?
We don't want to feel we bought them for nothing right?
What about those people who had contributed time and effort to put up those old-Limited combos?
What of the tournaments so far?
(I'm starting to feel like Michael Jackson's "Earth Song" XD
The push we gave should not have been at this scale. This is quite a radical revolution.
Not trying to repetite an argument point, but I'm for separating old and new Limited more than ever. Otherwise, I'll probably take a temporary leave off beyblade.
I'll probably argue in the next morning (Local time 12 30 right now, its half past midnight)better than this night.
GOOD NIGHT GUYS.
@th!nk I don't believe all launchers should be banned. Some launchers, like the Beyblaster, wonderfully compliment the beauty of hand-spinning, in my opinion.
I believe this format was put together by most of the great minds in Limited, so they obviously didn't mind.
(Apr. 01, 2014 6:30 PM)Dual Wrote: [ -> ]@th!nk I don't believe all launchers should be banned. Some launchers, like the Beyblaster, wonderfully compliment the beauty of hand-spinning, in my opinion.
I believe this format was put together by most of the great minds in Limited, so they obviously didn't mind.
I noticed. Am I the only one who doesn't want this?
Great minds? The OP said the Commitee were the ones that put this together.
April Fools to you too, Kai-V.
So... This means most of the limited testing is going to waste?! *sigh*. This is just gonna make it harder to host limited 2.0 tournaments with all of these rules... Limited 1.0 is totally whipped out now?
Hopefully this format won't get boring after a few months, also what's the point of having to use Orso with an Orso face? I think I'm missing something about this format.... But who knows, I might grow to like it.
EDIT: OMFG if this is a joke I'm going to go kiss my limited combos.
(Apr. 01, 2014 6:53 PM)Leone19 Wrote: [ -> ]April Fools to you too, Kai-V.
If not, I call Poison Serpent.
(Apr. 01, 2014 6:55 PM)Leone19 Wrote: [ -> ] (Apr. 01, 2014 6:53 PM)Leone19 Wrote: [ -> ]April Fools to you too, Kai-V.
Was I really the only one who realized this at first, haha?
If this is a joke, I vote that Leone19 gets a stone face booster for realizing this first.
The shock overshadowed me even considering this was a joke.
Nice one committee
Man, I knew people wouldn't be able to take a poison-centric format clearly. If you guys sit down and play it I think you'll see that there is a whole new level of competitive play here that you're being very disrespectful towards :c
Aww such refreshing news!!! Time to dust off the old wheels.
I've never been happier, useful parts have been extremely frustrating and now I can finally enjoy Beyblade the way it was meant to be
10/10 it's about time Poison gets the respect it so long has deserved
(Apr. 01, 2014 6:57 PM)DRAGON KING Wrote: [ -> ] (Apr. 01, 2014 6:55 PM)Leone19 Wrote: [ -> ] (Apr. 01, 2014 6:53 PM)Leone19 Wrote: [ -> ]April Fools to you too, Kai-V.
Was I really the only one who realized this at first, haha?
If this is a joke, I vote that Leone19 gets a stone face booster for realizing this first.
The shock overshadowed me even considering this was a joke.
Nice one committee
Does my first post on here not show my understanding? Oh well, I tried to make it subtle anyway.
Not to be conceited, but as far as people who posted here, I got it first
(Apr. 01, 2014 7:38 PM)Dual Wrote: [ -> ] (Apr. 01, 2014 6:57 PM)DRAGON KING Wrote: [ -> ] (Apr. 01, 2014 6:55 PM)Leone19 Wrote: [ -> ]Was I really the only one who realized this at first, haha?
If this is a joke, I vote that Leone19 gets a stone face booster for realizing this first.
The shock overshadowed me even considering this was a joke.
Nice one committee
Does my first post on here not show my understanding? Oh well, I tried to make it subtle anyway.
Not to be conceited, but as far as people who posted here, I got it first
well, yeah I guess you got it first.
Ingulit is posting the other threads... I didn't think they'd go farther than one thread for just a joke, I guess they'll get closed?
I KNEW THIS WAS COMING!!
Darn you Ingulit. XD