World Beyblade Organization by Fighting Spirits Inc.

The title speaks for it's self, as we have a lot like this anyway. Say anything that is on your mind about animation, anime and even Manga, just no spamming the place up (I know say this might not help but you know).

I started watching D.Gary-man a few days back and it is great, it has got a pretty interesting story and the fights aren't that bad ever. I'm just glad I am watching an anime for once instead of just reading the Manga.

Why is it that American Censors always ruin a good anime by making it child friendly. Naruto's a great example. One of the first animes I ever watched and I thought it was awesome. Then I watched it in the original japanease with english subs...so much better. Just make it TV-14 for swearing and violence and call it good for crying out loud

(Aug. 27, 2009  6:13 PM)Stephen Wrote: [ -> ]Why is it that American Censors always ruin a good anime by making it child friendly. Naruto's a great example. One of the first animes I ever watched and I thought it was awesome. Then I watched it in the original japanease with english subs...so much better. Just make it TV-14 for swearing and violence and call it good for crying out loud

Ugh.

All anime on TV is edited. No exceptions. None at all. Zero, Zip, Nada.

lol, when i was in grade 9, i did an animation for french class on something zombie pacman related. IT was really rough though, i made each frame separately and made gifs for each scene. took forever x_x

In Japan, anime is frequently edited too. Both Naruto and Bleach have been edited on occasion over there. There's no such thing as a real curse word in Japanese too--what you're seeing is fan translators trying to make things sound cooler. What they did to Naruto over here was actually really good--only a little blood was removed.

And if you really care so much, show some support by buying the uncut DVDs. Though it's pretty obvious that you're not.

(Aug. 28, 2009  5:43 PM)Toto Wrote: [ -> ]In Japan, anime is frequently edited too. Both Naruto and Bleach have been edited on occasion over there. There's no such thing as a real curse word in Japanese too--what you're seeing is fan translators trying to make things sound cooler. What they did to Naruto over here was actually really good--only a little blood was removed.

And if you really care so much, show some support by buying the uncut DVDs. Though it's pretty obvious that you're not.

[Image: dragonball-kai-censored.jpg]

(very tl;dr)

Modern animation is in the crapper IMO.

Going by storyline and characters alone there are probably a lot of great animated programs out there. But judging solely on the quality of the animation and the technical aspects, 2D animation is in the toilet.

A majority of mainstream anime use the same tired routine of cutting corners they've been using since the 80's. This isn't to say all anime is badly animated (so please don't list every anime you think is well done) because a majority of the time it does depend on the budget. You'll notice animators either have an especially low budget (or are just lazy) if you see more camera pans or still frames with the mouth/eyes/hair just moving than actual full body movement.

I recently watched the first few minutes of One Piece 414 on youtube and this is a good example of what I'm talking about. For the first 2 minutes of the episode NOTHING MOVES. It is literally just still frames with the camera panning. It's ridiculous to look at. Considering One Piece is one of the biggest animes going in Japan right now I'll be amazed if their budget is really that low that level of awful is called for. It's embarrassing to see better animation in The Flintstones than One Piece.

The problem with a lot of animes is that they have such complicated character designs (compared to their western counterparts) they're a complete pain in the bum to animate. It's not to be said it can't be done, you just have to put in the extra effort. If you go by still frames alone, a lot of anime looks incredibly appealing. But all things considered, a lot of people don't care about this if they really enjoy the storyline. (which really seems to be the case).

I think a good example of roller coasting quality is the DC special Batman: Gotham Knights . There were 4 different studies working on the 6 shorts, and Studio 4°C's really shines here. Whenever I mention how badly done some of the shorts of Gotham Knights were done, a lot of people think I'm talking about 'Have I Got A Story For You'. To the contrary, I think it's one of the highlights of Gotham Knights. Although the character design may not be as appealing as the rest, the animation is top notch through out. The movement is fluid and there is always a ton of things going on in each scene. If anything the creative spin in that short is really admirable.

'Crossfire' and 'Field Test' were just garbage. Which is disappointing since Gotham Knights has Bruce Timm's name as a Executive Director on the project. Personally, I've come to expect a lot from him. The storylines were boring, the animation was literally nothing but pans/mouths moving. To be fair, these shorts may be a lot better in terms of story than I'm giving them credit for. But the terrible animation was just too distracting to appreciate anything else.

I don't know if anyone has heard, but Craig McCracken (Foster's Home for Imaginary Friends, Power Puff Girls) was recently fired from Cartoon Network. I think that's just a crying shame, considering Cartoon Network is buying up all that low budget Canadian flash trash. Not sure if it's true, but I also heard they were looking to pad their line up with more live action programs since they're cheaper to produce. I don't know about anyone else, but other than a handful of shows, I think Cartoon Network has just given up trying to produce quality programming.

Someone bring back the late 80's and early 90's!

(Aug. 28, 2009  5:43 PM)Toto Wrote: [ -> ]In Japan, anime is frequently edited too. Both Naruto and Bleach have been edited on occasion over there. There's no such thing as a real curse word in Japanese too--what you're seeing is fan translators trying to make things sound cooler. What they did to Naruto over here was actually really good--only a little blood was removed.

And if you really care so much, show some support by buying the uncut DVDs. Though it's pretty obvious that you're not.

The naruto that we get over here went as far as even not showing the episode to do with the death god, which is funny because I don't remember there being much blood or anything to bad in that episode.

(Aug. 28, 2009  10:32 PM)The_Lumberman Wrote: [ -> ]*snip*

Just because something is low budget doesn't mean it isn't good. Most Mainframe, Studio B and Nerd Corps shows are produced on a tight budget, and no one would dare call their stuff trash (well, with Studio B that can be argued). As for anime shows produced on tiny budgets that mange to turn out great, I have to say .hack//SIGN, Beetrain is notorious for low budget, pans, zooms, etc. but the show is still tremendous.

Shows like One Piece have small budgets because the show is produced for every week in the year, to do full great animation it would be crazy expensive. And considering how lazy Toei is *cough*DragonBall Kai*cough*, and how much of their work is outsourced to the Philiphines, or Korea, I doubt it's going to change.

---

(Aug. 28, 2009  10:45 PM)Zander Soulwind Wrote: [ -> ]The naruto that we get over here went as far as even not showing the episode to do with the death god, which is funny because I don't remember there being much blood or anything to bad in that episode.

The UK TV version of Naruto was further edited compared to the US version, or the Canadian version (Canadian broadcast has had more blood in certain parts then the US broadcast), but this wasn't done by the distributor of Naruto in the UK, it was done by the broadcast channel.

I always wondered why Dragon Ball Z had one opening for the first 200 episodes - was it budget? Toei being Toei? or is that just how anime rolled back then?

Quote:Just because something is low budget doesn't mean it isn't good. Most Mainframe, Studio B and Nerd Corps shows are produced on a tight budget, and no one would dare call their stuff trash (well, with Studio B that can be argued). As for anime shows produced on tiny budgets that mange to turn out great, I have to say .hack//SIGN, Beetrain is notorious for low budget, pans, zooms, etc. but the show is still tremendous.

Quote:Going by storyline and characters alone there are probably a lot of great animated programs out there. But judging solely on the quality of the animation...

I've watched a lot of bad animated shows that have been really entertaining (Assy McGee!!) but I know for me personally a lot of pans and zooms used repetitively just kill a show for me. But that being said, it doesn't mean a show is bad by default. Just unimpressive on a technical level.

Actually going back and re watching some of Dragonball Z I think the earlier seasons had much better animation that One Piece today. That's not to say it was good by any means, just better. There was just more going on in terms of body movements. There were a lot of decent scenes where Gohan was being trained by Piccolo for example. I think you'd have to review it to see what I'm talking about. I think it was somewhere around the Great Saiyaman saga did the animation just take a dip in quality (WTH WITH WITH THOSE GIANT CHINS IN THE PROFILE SHOTS?!).

I didn't mind the fact Dragonball Z had only two openings. Sailormoon was also animated by Toei roughly around the same time period and it had several openings. They were pretty poorly done compared to Dragonball Z's first OP. Quality over quantity!!

(Aug. 29, 2009  6:07 AM)To Wrote: [ -> ]The UK TV version of Naruto was further edited compared to the US version, or the Canadian version (Canadian broadcast has had more blood in certain parts then the US broadcast), but this wasn't done by the distributor of Naruto in the UK, it was done by the broadcast channel.

Come to think of it, that would make sence but it is also 4Kids we are talking about here.

(Aug. 29, 2009  6:45 AM)Sam Wrote: [ -> ]I always wondered why Dragon Ball Z had one opening for the first 200 episodes - was it budget? Toei being Toei? or is that just how anime rolled back then?

Head-Cha-La, and Zenkai Power were composed for DragonBall Z wasn't it? Shows that have a theme song composed for them, rather then licesning them from artists tend to have less varying opening animations.

(Aug. 29, 2009  6:47 AM)The_Lumberman Wrote: [ -> ]I've watched a lot of bad animated shows that have been really entertaining (Assy McGee!!) but I know for me personally a lot of pans and zooms used repetitively just kill a show for me. But that being said, it doesn't mean a show is bad by default. Just unimpressive on a technical level.

Actually going back and re watching some of Dragonball Z I think the earlier seasons had much better animation that One Piece today. That's not to say it was good by any means, just better. There was just more going on in terms of body movements. There were a lot of decent scenes where Gohan was being trained by Piccolo for example. I think you'd have to review it to see what I'm talking about. I think it was somewhere around the Great Saiyaman saga did the animation just take a dip in quality (WTH WITH WITH THOSE GIANT CHINS IN THE PROFILE SHOTS?!).

The pan, zoom, etc. cost cutting measure for some reason is something that boomed once cell animation died in Japan. Probably acossiated with the costs of going digital. The pans, and zooms are in cell animation, but are used less. DragonBall/Z (GT was done on a hybrid IIRC) were done on cells, as were most shows pre 1996, One Piece is done digitally.

DragonBall/Z/GT has a lot of bad shots, where models are completely done wrong (infamous Lupin Vegeta anyone?). I'm less harsh on the show since it aired from 1986-1997 every week more or less.

(Aug. 29, 2009  1:30 PM)Zander Soulwind Wrote: [ -> ]Come to think of it, that would make sence but it is also 4Kids we are talking about here.

No it isn't. Naruto isn't handled by 4Kids anywhere in the world. Viz Media holds the North and South American license, as well as the master license in Europe and in the UK the shows distribution is handled by Manga Entertainment.

I don't believe it, my Brother lied or I just miss heard. I always thought it was though. It's still really rubbish in our country though.

thread reminds me of:

Soya Sachou (President of Toei Philippines) "Yes. A long time ago, like in the 1960s until the late 1980s. [...] The Japanese style of animation is very different from the American style. The US style is FULL animation. The Japanese style is limited [...] because the number of frames per second is fewer. In film the camera shoots or plays at 24 frames per second. The Americans would draw 24 drawings. But the Japanese style is only 8. Only 8 drawings in one second.The animation result is very different. If the US style is more focused on the amount of movement, how smoothly the movement looks, but the Japanese focus is on how beautiful the drawing is, or how cool the pose or style of the character is. The action is important too, the timing of the movement."

and is one piece's animation really that bad? i've been thinking on reading/watching that forever since the general consensus on daizex (good dragon ball fansite) is that one piece rules. i'd normally just default to the manga but one piece has an extremely colorful world (as opposed to things like death note, bleach, naruto) that can't really be conveyed in black and white or red/grey scale or whatever.

i would be tempted to say .hack//SIGN would've worked better as a manga if the soundtrack wasn't so amazing

One Piece isn't a bad show at all, it has a lot of good points. Animation wise it leaves a lot to be desired. I prefer the manga over the anime but One Piece does look great in color. I think the black/white lends to the dramatic scenes a whole lot more than color/dramatic music ever could though.

The first few minutes of episode 413 illustrates why I have so many qualms with the show.

Quote:Soya Sachou (President of Toei Philippines) "Yes. A long time ago, like in the 1960s until the late 1980s. [...] The Japanese style of animation is very different from the American style. The US style is FULL animation. The Japanese style is limited [...] because the number of frames per second is fewer. In film the camera shoots or plays at 24 frames per second. The Americans would draw 24 drawings. But the Japanese style is only 8. Only 8 drawings in one second.The animation result is very different. If the US style is more focused on the amount of movement, how smoothly the movement looks, but the Japanese focus is on how beautiful the drawing is, or how cool the pose or style of the character is. The action is important too, the timing of the movement."

That pretty much sums up anime right there. You have pretty still shots, but it comes at a cost. I don't think western animation still does 24 drawings a second anymore unless it's a big production. In school we were taught the standard was 12 drawings stretched out for 24 frames (every drawing is held 2 frames). But I think it varies between productions. Some are considerably less. I've seen people sneak by with 9 cells a second (1 drawing held for 3 frames) and it didn't necessarily look too bad. It really depends on how you utilize that second.

I don't remember a lot of GT TBH, I just remember hating it. But I remember it adapted those new character models that appeared in the last season or so of DBZ. If you look back to the earlier models a lot of the characters were actually pretty lean, their muscles less pronounced (unless they were going for some sort of exaggerated muscle-bound look). Vegeta was absolutely tiny when he first arrived on earth. As the show progressed everyone gained about 50 pounds of muscle. I didn't mind the slight character changes here and there. In terms of character models the show was at it's best during the Android Saga for me. I think it just got to be too much around the Buu Saga. Those chins/massive necks were just unappealing.

I think women took the biggest blow in DBGT. There bodies got a whole lot smaller/compact. There head seemed too big for their bodies when match with those tiny shoulders.

It's been a little while since this thread has been used but I have started to watch the Gundam Wing and it is hard to believe it is so good for something that came out a long time ago, I had watched it one time in my life but I was young then so I don't remember all to much but it is worth watching again. Also, Heero is cool.

Edit: Also, can someone change the title please, I was thinking it might be better as General Media thoughts instead.

ghost in the shell is king

heero sucks

(Nov. 24, 2009  6:20 PM)AnnieDuck Wrote: [ -> ]ghost in the shell is king

heero sucks

Come on, sure he is a little up tight but don't most animes have characters like that?

Also, I agree with your first line.

he's the stereotypical whiny, melodramatic teenager

i fail to see how that is even remotely interesting since, like you said, most anime have characters like that and have for far longer than wing

Ok, you win this but I do love Gundam Zero, that's a cool mobile suit, I just wish i could get a model of it.

Also, speaking of ghost in the shell, I can't wait for the live action film of it, that is a film I would go to see in the cinema no matter what.

New Moon and 2012 have been making too much money (although the same could be said about a certain robot movie I enjoyed). That is all.