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Full Version: [TBT] [In Progress] Is B:D competitive at all? (BB-10)
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Is B:D a competitive part at all in the BB-10 stadium?
Part of the "Topic-by-Topic" Series

Bearing Drive holds a very strange place in the competitive Beyblade scene, at least in the BB-10 (it's utterly dominating the Zero-G meta, but that's not what this topic is about). It's hard to argue against its natural stamina, though the general concensus seems to be that its defense is so low that it isn't considered a competitive piece. That being said, are we really giving B:D its fair share? Ignoring its niche use against spin stealers, it has been taking top spots in tournaments ever since its introduction, and it is very much a tournament threat. If a given stamina bey using a good mold of B:D manages to stay in the arena, there is very little that even has a chance to OS it (as a matter of fact, I can't think of a single thing that could).

B:D strikes me as being a very high-risk, high-reward part to use; can such a part be considered competitive?

Off-topic: If anyone can tell me how to edit a poll it would be much appreciated, as apparently I couldn't turn off smilies after all. If I can't, many apologies for the faces in the poll.
No, it doesn't deserve a spot and that defense is the reason is a fallacy.

Here's the reasons it never got a spot:

1. It's at an appalling height: The main reason B: D was never considered competitive was because it simply did poorly against the three major heights:
85-100: Destabilise it heavily. They did get hit down a bit, but did well enough to win reliably.
145: Destabilises it while being tall enough to avoid any force smash or whatever.
220/230: Smack down on it, winning reliably.

It's the same reason I railed against people testing TH170 at 170 height - it's a similarly terrible height. Uwik suggested that the issues with this height range are probably the same reason SA165 has trouble outside of spin stealers and I'm inclined to believe him.

So, if you want a combo that can beat B: D if it stays in I direct you to the stamina section of the competitive combinations list. MF-M Duo Cancer 230MB doesn't do badly against Phantom Cancer B: D at the least, and this is with my Phantom and Duo (my phantom generally beats my Duo more than normal). Swapping the MW's on those combos only skews things more in favour of 230MB.

2. It's not just that its defense is low, it's that its ability to handle rotational recoil is so bad that it greatly affects its stamina. Rotational recoil (loss of spin on impact) isn't discussed enough but it's just as important as regular recoil (flying backwards), and this is where B: D has a serious problem. This is the primary reason why its stamina doesn't reflect its solo spin times particularly well. Admittedly this is less of an issue with Duo (though Death may still have some issues because of its wing details).

3. Its original popularity and success was based on Phantom Orion B: D being decent out of the box, the ongoing craze about bearings (which are really not significantly better than a good stamina tip with good LAD in same spin, and in opposite spin they're still nowhere near as dangerous as people think), and imitation. To be fair, Phantom B: D wasn't a bad setup compared to the next best option when it was released because that was Hell, Basalt, and Scythe. It just wasn't anywhere near as good as Phantom AD145WD or TH170/230D.

The fact they placed when Fang, Beat, Variares and Phantom attack combos could've handled them with extreme ease (Phantom Attack could've dominated in that era, btw) is enough of an indication that those placings were questionable at best.

There is ONE outlier, and that is particularly good molds of B: D do seem to be competitive. However, these are quite rare, and therefore cannot be used as a basis for competitive listing (as it won't work for most people). On the other end of the spectrum are bad B: D's, which are really, really horrible.

Onto more modern times:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but out of wheels that have currently been tested on B: D, isn't Death the only one that can reliably beat spin stealers?
Now, sure, if you have an area with a lot of spin stealers it's not a terrible choice however two things should be considered:
1: Anti Attack WILL KO you.
2: While attack is in an appalling state at the moment in BB-10, if your area is dominated enough by spin stealers that Death BGrin becomes a reliable choice, Attack types are probably going to be a more reliable way to beat most things you face. Of course, the question is Anti-Attack:

The big thing I want tested (if it hasn't been already and I just haven't seen) is MF-H Diablo Kerbecs BD145RF vs MSF-H Revizer Dragoon SA165EWD. Weak launch the synchrom if necessary, though that may only make things worse.

I suspect Diablo will handle it, given how well it does against MF-H LDG BD145EDS, along with every other stamina type (the main thing I tried was Duo Cancer BD145EDS, which could win by wall save but generally didn't have it, which is also enough for me to completely agree with its recent removal now), and anyone still using attack.

Obviously, Diablo murders Death B: D, too.

Of course, if Diablo can't take a popular spin stealer, then yes, I could see Death B: D getting a place, but I'd suggest looking into other alternatives first because it's going to lose against stamina and anti-attack.

Still, though, losing to stamina, anti-attack, 230MB, and the rare attack type seems like a bad deal to me unless spin stealers are utterly dominating.
I don't have much to add onto what Technocrat said; I agree that B:D loses too easily to too many things, unfortunately. For me, the deal breaker is that it can't even beat regular Stamina combos on Tracks like AD145/W145WD; that alone proves how relatively useless it is in BB-10.

However, I do question the assertion that B:D has a niche for reliably beating Spin Stealers. Back when B:D came out, I tested it against Meteo L Drago TR145EWD (or something like that), and it lost rather consistently, from what I can remember. However, this may have just been due to a problem with the mold(s) of B:D I was using, so I could be wrong. Do we know if it does well against MSF-H Revizer Dragoon SA165EWD?

A few other comments:
(Oct. 10, 2012  5:06 AM)Technocrat Wrote: [ -> ]2: While attack is in an appalling state at the moment in BB-10

What do you mean by this? A decent amount of Attack types are still seen at our Standard Format tournaments here in Toronto, and it's been that way for a long time now.

(Oct. 10, 2012  5:06 AM)Technocrat Wrote: [ -> ]The big thing I want tested (if it hasn't been already and I just haven't seen) is MF-H Diablo Kerbecs BD145RF vs MSF-H Revizer Dragoon SA165EWD. Weak launch the synchrom if necessary, though that may only make things worse.

Although weak launching Reviser Dragooon could cause some problems, based on my experience alone, I'm almost certain that Diablo could handle it; especially if you're testing it in a tournament setting/with two players where Reviser Dragooon wouldn't have as much of an opportunity to settle down in the middle of the stadium.

It is better to say that Death B: D specifically has the ability to beat Spin Stealers, apparently. Death itself contributes greatly to this for whatever reason.

Doing well against that particular combination is a large part of why Death B: D in particular is known for beating them.

Attack Stuff: Correct me if I'm wrong (you'd know much better than me), but IIRC you also have a comparatively large number of stamina types which will help somewhat, but generally between defense types and anti-attackers both defeating them hands down (perhaps with the exception in the case of the former of Flash W145MF, according to Ingulit, at least), and Anti-Attack being able to do just as well against non-defense types, there is generally not much of a place for conventional attack types - neither works well against defense, stamina and most balance types can't take a hit from either and Anti-Attack destroys attack 1v1.

Zero-G has introduced a huge number of strong and versatile defense wheels and tracks while we're yet to get anything more for attack than W145, though this could be due to insufficient testing.

Perhaps though, anti attack doing okay is enough, for now at least.

Re: Diablo V Revizer Dragoon: As I said, that's what I expect, especially as the rounds I did with MF-H LDG/LDD BD145EDS indicated that weak launching LDD/LDG only made things worse for it (I assume because lower RPM makes things easier to push about, though that could also be due to the weight matchup which would be different against a Synchrom). Still, testing would be great if anyone is able to do it.