Hey all,
It's been a while since I've last posted, and it's given me a lot of time to work on my writing. I want to make sure people don't "jump the gun" on each other anymore, or judge the book by it's rather short introduction. Just a few things, and maybe we can come to a general consensus about these thoughts together:
1. Just because an introduction is short, doesn't mean it's bad. To a certain extent, I soemtimes prefer to write shorter intros. That being said, you should at least have three sentences. Anything around there or less would most likely need work. Also, if the writer is making all of his chapters small, that's still no reason to judge. I know James Patterson wrote a series called Maximum Ride, where the longest chapter was 3 pages. However, it was a very long book (And the series is still going-the last book's coming out soon) and each chapter was very detailed and well written. The moral here is that quantity isn't a bad thing to have, but sometimes quality can take its place.
2. Dialogue-the never ending debate (As to sound dramatic about it). There is a point where if someone is only putting dialogue and not even tags, then they may want to revise their story. However, I've seen that dialogue isn't a demon or whatever we call it. Some people prefer (Like me) to write with a lot of description. Everyone has their own style of writing, and trying to adapt others to our way is wrong. We'd be taking away what makes them their own writer, and making them our writer. I don't like it, and I feel bad about it. Moral: Dialogue can just be someone's writing style, and isn't necesarily a bad thing. But fitting in a little something to describe a scene here or there wouldn't be too bad.
3. The biggy: Age. I know there have been numerous descrepencies along this line (Too young to be judged, using it as an excuse, etc), but I think it comes down to this: if you wanted only praises and positive feedback, either state that at the beginning of the story or only show it to your friends and family. I don't want to sound mean, but I think it's better for us to be honest and give advice-that doesn't mean going crazy on people, but maybe offering helpful hints here and there. Moral: Specify if you don't want advice and just want positive stuff or whatever, otherwise if you think you have some tips to offer feel free to share them.
That's my 2 cents, anyways. Post comments about what I have here and what you'd add or argue with.
Thanks guys,
Sparta
I totally agree with you! As long as people don't call me a carpy idiot or a whiny eleven year old, I am open to any critique. Even though I'm only eleven, I'm a member of the WBO Writing/Reviewing Company. I haven't seen any age discriminators so far. I prefer lots of dialogue, but I know that it's important to be descriptive, too. Many people, unlike me, prefer description. I've seen that most of BladerPotter's stories have barely any dialouge at all! All in all, we need to keep writing fun for everyone, regardless of age or style!
I quite agree with all of these. Especially the last one. Using your age as a reason just seems desperate and cheap to me. I and Fakir are living examples of that. Also Black Hole (BladingKiller). And yes, you shouldn't sacrifice quality for quantity. If a chapter is short but good, that's okay. But a long chapter with barely anything you can understand? There is no competition on what would be better to read. A style of a person's writing can be CONSTRUCTIVELY critized to HELP the person to develop the style more, not to force to change it. It's up to the writer to use what words he/she wants, what kind of view he/she assumes and etc.
That's all my brain can say since it's quite busy tending to the nerves of my aching feet.
Yes, agreeing is what I'll do here. Like the other comments here too, I agree with the age thing. Hey BeybladePotter, I'm pretty young too. I started making stories when I was 9 years old and I finished it. It was a fanfiction about Monster Hunter, a video game. People like it, so age doesn't matter really because you can do incredible feats even if you're young. Like BBP, she is very young and I look up to her. That's me, I don't know about the others. Yes, a short intro doesn't affect the story, because it's just an introduction to the story. I also put a good amount of dialogue in my writings.
Info on me too, I like harsh critiques, but those that are constructive. So, I'm practically open to all kinds of criticisms.
Fakir's Duck, you're 11 years old? Wow. I mean, you have nice grammar.
Yes, I agree about everything you said especially the age part. I'm pretty young too and if you want to know about my stories just pm me asking the name.
(Apr. 21, 2012 10:41 AM)Deus Wrote: [ -> ]Yes, agreeing is what I'll do here. Like the other comments here too, I agree with the age thing. Hey BeybladePotter, I'm pretty young too. I started making stories when I was 9 years old and I finished it. It was a fanfiction about Monster Hunter, a video game. People like it, so age doesn't matter really because you can do incredible feats even if you're young. Like BBP, she is very young and I look up to her. That's me, I don't know about the others. Yes, a short intro doesn't affect the story, because it's just an introduction to the story. I also put a good amount of dialogue in my writings.
Info on me too, I like harsh critiques, but those that are constructive. So, I'm practically open to all kinds of criticisms.
Fakir's Duck, you're 11 years old? Wow. I mean, you have nice grammar.
Out of all the times we talked on Facebook, you never told me that you wrote stories when you were 9
.
Aww shucks. Thanks.
And yes, the critique part is very important. We must realize that even if there are people who can take harsh but constructive criticism, there are people who prefer criticism in a way that covers less faults and more positive stuff. This, I think, is why all of the reasons in the OP are there; it branches out from the kinds of criticism the writers can take.
Your last statement about Fakir is enough proof that age should never be and shouldn't have been an excuse.
Oh dear, here it is again... I would like to make it clear to ALL WRITERS that my name isn't Fakir, its Duck! You got that? My name is Duck!
I know this is something of a bump, but something I hate is the defense of bad stories to stay on a writer's good side for Char. requests. I don't mind character requests as much, but I think they can be handled through PM. Otherwise, they clutter the thread, no? As for unnecessary defense, I have cut back on scathing rants. (Though the rant days were fun.) So I can see why nobody wants that type of thing hurled at them, but the way I see things will never change. If you do something, then do it to be either the best, or to be at least pretty good. I never have, and never will, see the point in writing when you have no intention of improvement. That is what I hate more than anything, and what triggers my rants 90-95% of the time. (If not 100%. I'm not one to pointlessly be mean, though I can rant for quite a while...)
(Apr. 24, 2012 12:44 AM)Temporal Wrote: [ -> ]I know this is something of a bump, but something I hate is the defense of bad stories to stay on a writer's good side for Char. requests. I don't mind character requests as much, but I think they can be handled through PM. Otherwise, they clutter the thread, no? As for unnecessary defense, I have cut back on scathing rants. (Though the rant days were fun.) So I can see why nobody wants that type of thing hurled at them, but the way I see things will never change. If you do something, then do it to be either the best, or to be at least pretty good. I never have, and never will, see the point in writing when you have no intention of improvement. That is what I hate more than anything, and what triggers my rants 90-95% of the time. (If not 100%. I'm not one to pointlessly be mean, though I can rant for quite a while...)
Temporal, I have only one thing to say: YOU ARE THE MEANEST PERSON EVER!!! That statement above counted as a rant! And to say that rants are fun! There is just something wrong with that! Do you have any idea how many people's feelings you've hurt through those rants? There is a big difference between criticism and rants. Do not rant, only criticize! Those are the standards for a good helper!
Honestly, Temporal is nowhere near the meanest person ever. He just says what he thinks. His thought processes are just longer than a lot of other people's.
Overall, I really like this list. It makes a lot of sense. Especially the age part of it, that's what I see most, honestly.
(Apr. 24, 2012 12:44 AM)Temporal Wrote: [ -> ]I never have, and never will, see the point in writing when you have no intention of improvement.
I love this.
It's so true; there is no such thing as perfect. You could say that James Patterson (as amazing as he is) still has things work on as a writer. You think he sits there writing a book and saying "Everything I write is fine, there's no need to change it or edit it. I'm perfect"? No. He works and works and works and trashes ideas, makes spelling mistakes, forgets a description, etc. No one can write a perfect story. There's always stuff to improve on. I love to see people challenge me and push me to new heights; it's what makes me better. But if you don't agree, then say in the title you just want to get positive/fake positive feedback, or only show it to people who will give you that like your parents.
The only problem I used to have with CR goes along with the challenging thing I mentioned above-it's either to get people to comment on/love your story, or to avoid having to make a character and do the work. Using it for the first reason is stupid; it gives people a chance to take control of YOUR story and make it theirs. The latter is also a bad idea, in the sense that you're avoiding work. You should always present yourself with a challenge and make it hard-otherwise, how do you improve? Did Rocky Balboa (sorry for the stupid analogy, but)sit back and wait for his muscles to grow for him, or only do simple and easy workouts? He worked his tail off, but that was how he improved. Even if it's hard, it's always good to push yourself.
(Apr. 24, 2012 5:09 AM)Fakirs Duck Wrote: [ -> ] (Apr. 24, 2012 12:44 AM)Temporal Wrote: [ -> ]I know this is something of a bump, but something I hate is the defense of bad stories to stay on a writer's good side for Char. requests. I don't mind character requests as much, but I think they can be handled through PM. Otherwise, they clutter the thread, no? As for unnecessary defense, I have cut back on scathing rants. (Though the rant days were fun.) So I can see why nobody wants that type of thing hurled at them, but the way I see things will never change. If you do something, then do it to be either the best, or to be at least pretty good. I never have, and never will, see the point in writing when you have no intention of improvement. That is what I hate more than anything, and what triggers my rants 90-95% of the time. (If not 100%. I'm not one to pointlessly be mean, though I can rant for quite a while...)
Temporal, I have only one thing to say: YOU ARE THE MEANEST PERSON EVER!!! That statement above counted as a rant! And to say that rants are fun! There is just something wrong with that! Do you have any idea how many people's feelings you've hurt through those rants? There is a big difference between criticism and rants. Do not rant, only criticize! Those are the standards for a good helper!
Read my last sentence, then fully read the whole post. Before saying the "rant days" were fun, I also said they were PAST. THIS is what triggers my usual rant. One: Mistaking a minor criticism for a rant. Two: Not trying. Three: Not. Taking. Advice. Those three trigger (or USED to) rants. While, yes. I can come off as mean. I do not mean to. But I agree with Odin. I never hold back. I don't like to. But if you read the rants carefully, they have exactly the reasoning FOR the rant in them. And frankly, that was not even CLOSE to my usual rants. There were no instances of "this sucks" or any sarcasm whatsoever, which normally accompanied one of my rants, which, by the way, is WHY I said I understand why new writers didn't like them. And, as I mentioned three times now, why I cut back on them.
The last thing in the OP is one of those things I see on the internet that drives me nuts. I really hate it when little kids pull the "IM ONLY 8!!!1" cards.
Also, adding to this, by all means, do NOT make the main character a Mary-Sue* type person. Stories with these characters are boring and very predictable at the same time...
*If you didn't know, a "Mary-Sue" is a character made for a story/movie/etc. that is practically invincible.
I really get the age part, I'm 10 years old and I love to write. luckily, my friends doesn't pull up for that
I completely agree. And I appreciate what you said about chapter lengths. I myself write incredibly short chapters. There are times I don't break 400 words, but I usually average only 500-600.
And James Patterson: He's written chapters that don't even take up a whole page, yet he writes over 100 in almost every book he's written. And as far as his skill goes: I feel his writing ability has deteriorated in the past few years.
One thing I would like to add: avoid plot holes: something in a story that has no explanation or is never revisited. I know Patterson's YA series are quite infamous for these, especially after Maximum Ride 3.