Honestly I think a lot of the stuff that apparently needs testing does not at all... Most of the old information on HMS is correct from what I've seen, at least on competitive stuff. There are a few things that people from back then have doubted since then, which I generally agree with, and a lot of the stuff people are asking about I've already posted about -sure, no formal tests but if you really expect the tests that are proposed to show any difference that is discernible from random chance in TA vs BB-10, I can't say I agree at all...
Anyway, my thoughts: BB-10 isn't that big a deal for HMS to be honest. It does make GFC (UM) a bit more prone to self KO, and I tend to get more scraping issues with Metal Flat Core in it (deeper slope, I guess), but overall, not that huge a difference, and Grip Flat Core and Metal Weight Grip Core are basically the same, the latter's harder rubber might be a bit more of an issue in BB-10 but it's nowhere near significant enough to affect the CC list.
As for defense, well it's not like defense stands much of a chance in Tornado Attack anyway, and given how much of HMS attack hits things upwards (be it through upward smash or upper attack or basically always both), the tornado ridge doesn't make *that* big a difference to defense (Jiraiya Blade might do a bit better against defense in BB-10, but again, it's not a significant difference between that and TA). In general, BB-10's Tornado Ridge is still enough for HMS at least from the many things I've tried.
Overall, it's very, very similar to Tornado Attack, and shouldn't have a significant bearing on this list (and if it does, it's more likely to be due to the deeper dish causing things to scrape more easily rather than the slightly shallower TR).
Let me save some trouble, though, and at least quickly throw together a very rough update based on what I know (notes at the bottom, most if not all of this stuff there is a consensus upon anyway). Aside from CWD's I have every part on the old list and the new list, and a bunch of others, so I have a decent idea of what I'm doing.
Don't have time to tidy it up at the moment, so if someone else wants to 'formal' it up, that would be nice.
(Jan. 22, 2012 3:22 PM)Poseidon Wrote: [ -> ]Competitive Heavy Metal System Combos.
Attack
AR: Samurai Upper, Circle Upper, Slash Upper, Advance Attacker (Upper Mode), Jiraiya Blade
WD: CWD Free Cross, CWD Defense Ring, CWD Reverse Defenser, CWD Free Survivor, CWD Free Saucer, CWD God Ring (all preferably with 17.5g CWD Metal Part), 15g Circle Wide, Circle Heavy.
RC: Grip Flat Core (Ultimate Mode), Grip Flat Core, Metal Weight Grip Core, Metal Change Core.
Defense
AR: Samurai Upper, Circle Upper.
WD: CWD God Ring, CWD Free Survivor, CWD Reverse Defenser, CWD Defense Ring (17.5g CWD Metal Part only, for all)
RC: Bearing Core 2
Survival
AR: Advance Survivor, Advance Balancer, Wolf Crusher, Circle Upper.
WD: Circle Wide (15g>14g), CWD Free Survivor, CWD God Ring, CWD Reverse Defenser, CWD Defense Ring (CWD's are best used with 17.5g CWD Metal Part)
RC: Bearing Core
Notes:
Merged Attack - this might be a shock but they all use/work fine with the same parts (in part because all of those listed bar Jiraiya Blade use smash (regular or upward or both) as well as upper attack, and in part because of how compact HMS is as a generation). There is one awkward setup that results (Jiraiya Blade/Circle Wide/Metal Change Core) but separating it out is messy and I think most people would have the sense not to do that if they read the beywiki article or posts about it.
Removed Metal Flat Core from attack: Unnecessarily hard to control, scraping issues in BB-10, but most importantly it's not significantly faster than Metal Change Core, much harder to control, and has poorer stamina and recoil handling (MCC catches the ridge nicely). Could be argument about this but I think most people who have used both for a bit agree MCC is just a plain better option.
Added Metal Change Core to Attack: As above, it's a metal/budget option - this also ends up with the jiraiya blade aggro compact in attack. Ohwell.
Added MWGC to Attack: Consensus on this amongst knowledgeable users is that it's good, and I agree. Recoil control could be better as it is not so great at attack vs attack, but the controllability is real nice.
Advance Attacker - personally I find it inferior to the others listed there, but I guess it would still work well in HMS given how bad defense is.
CWD's: Unless you use a stupid one (anything big and scrapey), these make like 0 difference to attack, aside from stamina where you want to go with the one with the best stamina (but Circle Wide is still better). Jiraiya's CWD works fine, for example, and given how strong attack is, unless you use something dumb it won't make that big a difference (moreso on Metal Change Core, of course, but on the others not really).
If someone wants to write out all of the small/not dumb CWD's, that'd be nice because that's a pain and will be long.
Changed Circle Wide to 15g only - 15g circle wide is not at all hard to find, and noticeably better for attack from what I've done. Recoil control, flywheel effect, and all that jazz.
Defense: lolthiswasmissinghalftheRC'sbutstillhaddefenseringwhatevenisthis (fixed that)
Stamina: Added 15g>14g note (I feel this is important to make clear given spin stealing is involved which can benefit from lighter weight). Personally I don't like CWD Defense Ring because it doesn't have the defense and its LAD isn't really any better than CWD Reverse Defenser. On having used all of those AR's, each has their ups and downs.
Testing That Is Actually Probably Needed:
I mentioned a bunch of defense/balance setups using samurai changer's RC, fixed in place, in HMS Q&A recently that could be looked into, I intend to get to this when I have time. There's also that Double God Ring setup with that RC if anyone ever gets the parts to test it lol.
Viability of Force Smash needs investigation (Advance Attacker, Circle Heavy/17.5g CWD Defense Ring, Metal Semi Flat Core could have potential but given how attack dominated HMS is, eh, there's also tornado change core but that seems like Dranzer MS's RC without control over the gimmick so I'm very unconvinced.)
Still no balance on this list, as I said, they're all covered by attack.
And obviously any other new combos people have come up with could use testing, I recall not having the parts to test the one Time mentioned (I don't have an einstein ms RC, despite having a bunch of purple einstein ms ar's lol).
But yeah that will need a cleanup before it goes up and I'm going to be busy for a little with plastics and some mfb stuff, and for most HMS tournaments this is of questionable relevance anyway - it would honestly be more useful to do comprehensive testing based off a parts list consisting draciel/driger/gaia dragoon/dranzer MS, the advance series maybe, wolborg ms and death gargoyle MS. Not even kidding.