I believe Vulcan is top tier because it lacks high recoil. I was under the impression that the therm "recoil attack" doesnt actualy exist, and that recoil is bad for attack types in the normal meta. Unless I am mistaken?
http://wiki.worldbeyblade.org/index.php/Recoil
While a bit lacking in detail, this basicly explains why recoil is bad in the standard meta.
Hasbro stadiums have no real exists, and since most attack types are nerfed because of this, smashing the carp oit of the enemy is the only way to win.
That said, what are metal wheels with moderate to high recoil?
I thought so but my friend isisted that recoil attck insisted, maybe not vulcan but gravity dominates a lot of beys in hasbro stadiums, even without large pockets it can make the beys lose enough spin to inally ko the, i have had some sucess with wheels like twisted and earth (heavy round bully wheels) as attack types, pair them up with an rf and they beat the carp out of the opponents bey, even though technically they don't provide smash attck they meet the requirements of a hasbro attack type, try them out
Hasbro stadiums are different. Recoil attack MAY exist in hasbro meta. Not enough testing has been done. And even if it is proven to be effective (which it has yet to), not enough parts in general have been tested to gather signifigant findings yet.
The theory behind recoil in Hasbro meta is that because KOs are not really possible, self-KO is also not really possible, and the stamina-killing effect that recoil produces, coupeled with attack tips with higher stamina (like SF) would allow an attack type to win. This does not work in TT meta, as high recoil results in self-KO.
I am asking for high recoil wheels in general. High recoil is high recoil. It has nothing to do with any meta.
(Mar. 15, 2012 10:35 PM)LeonTempestXIII Wrote: [ -> ]The theory behind recoil in Hasbro meta is that because KOs are not really possible, self-KO is also not really possible, and the stamina-killing effect that recoil produces, coupeled with attack tips with higher stamina (like SF) would allow an attack type to win. This does not work in TT meta, as high recoil results in self-KO.
The "Stamina Killing effect" is what happens to your beyblade, not the other.
I'm not quite sure I understand what your whole take on it is, do you mean that you want your Beyblade to fly back against the wall and back in order to hit more frequently?
The stamina bey would still have more stamina so surely it would win
(Mar. 15, 2012 10:46 PM)Shabalabadoo Wrote: [ -> ] (Mar. 15, 2012 10:35 PM)LeonTempestXIII Wrote: [ -> ]The theory behind recoil in Hasbro meta is that because KOs are not really possible, self-KO is also not really possible, and the stamina-killing effect that recoil produces, coupeled with attack tips with higher stamina (like SF) would allow an attack type to win. This does not work in TT meta, as high recoil results in self-KO.
The "Stamina Killing effect" is what happens to your beyblade, not the other.
I'm not quite sure I understand what your whole take on it is, do you mean that you want your Beyblade to fly back against the wall and back in order to hit more frequently?
Precisely. I am writing an analysis of the tier list as well, and when completed, it will basicly summurize why certain things are different in the hasbro meta when compared to the standard meta. Recoil will be a large part of that analysis. But as you can see, alot more work needs to be done in writing it.
HUGE EDIT:
(Mar. 15, 2012 10:48 PM)apple1075 Wrote: [ -> ]The stamina bey would still have more stamina so surely it would win
There are many ways to approach this. One theory is that the rapid movement combined with high recoil has enough power to knock the enemy bey off balance. At the same time, both beys experience the stamina kill effect, as the high recoil bey initiates the recoil, and then both beys are sent rapidly flying around. Generally, a stamina type will be lighter, so it is likely to take a much harsher bashing-from-the-thrashing
To reach maximum output, the idea is to make the high recoil attack bey heavier, so that it has more inertia than its opponent. The other is that semi-aggresive and controlled movement combined with high recoil should produce the desired result. It was clear from the beggining that ___Rock___SF performed well in hasbro meta. Rock Bull/Aquario/Gasher mid-height SF combos work best. To high and your metal wheel wont make contact. To low and stadium scrapes will occur. MFs are hard to get, but if you have one, slap it on your Hasbro attack type. More stadium grip would also be effective, in theory, however the results we have seen for RF and the like were not great, but not bad either (atleast so far). Rubber flat tips arent as bad as people assume, but F, HF, HF/S, and WF are generaly more perferd and are better options at this point and time. RSF would be ideal, if Hasbro even releases it that is...
OK, but is this still an idea or have you tested, you can't use it for competitive combos or tier list until you test
Which is why I am requesting a list of high recoil wheels, so that I can test them
I was wondering: Why does Galaxy fold into it's main points of contact? After a few tests TT or Hasbro surely would of noticed it. Also, why does Hasbro slap random stats on the little slips that come with North American beys?
One more thing: Why do people make threads for their teams? Where could I make one for my team; Team Grand Rush?
(Mar. 16, 2012 1:19 AM)mayaman2 Wrote: [ -> ]I was wondering: Why does Galaxy fold into it's main points of contact? After a few tests TT or Hasbro surely would of noticed it. Also, why does Hasbro slap random stats on the little slips that come with North American beys?
One more thing: Why do people make threads for their teams? Where could I make one for my team; Team Grand Rush?
A) It's the way the metal wheel was originally designed when TAKARA-TOMY made it.
B) Because in America, Hasbro sells for little kids ;p anything to boost sales; i.e a 10 star Ray Gil will sell way more than a 2 star Ray Cancer, at least in my opinion (unless you have someone who knows their stuff buying)
C) People are people haha. There's no point in it, because I think that it' stupid unless you guys live close or meet occasionally. Anyways, the My Creations forum.
*
These are my personal opinions and thoughts.
Variares, Ray, Screw, Galaxy, Rock, Lightning, and there are probably many more I'm forgetting.
It's the design of it, why would they change it with a totally new wheel mold..?
The random stats? They think of how a part will perform, and put it on there with a bit of common sense (even though they don't use it often, hah.)
The team questions go in "Questions about the WBO"
Ok, thanks for the answers. But my logic is 'why not change it?'
(Mar. 16, 2012 1:30 AM)Raigeko13 Wrote: [ -> ]
Variares, Ray, Screw, Galaxy, Rock, Lightning, and there are probably many more I'm forgetting.
Thanks Rai
Now, why is it that high recoil parts such as Ray are top tier, but high recoil parts like Galaxy and Rock are not?
I am assuming that you are talking about the Hasbro metagame..
For one, recoil wheels cause a lot of force, and with this recoil and the walls it uses this to its advantage. When a Ray and something (say, Basalt?) collide lots of force is produced, throwing them back. The shape of these wheels (most of them are 3 sided if you haven't noticed) when colliding with walls above the pockets causes additional force to puch them back into the stadium. Basalt is heavy, and if it does not land straight into the pocket, it will hit the wall and fall, due to there being little force to propel it back into the stadium.
Rock isn't necessarily "bad" in the Hasbro meta, but there are better options, such as Ray, which at the moment is probably the best wheel to use this to its advantage.
As for Galaxy, it is entirely too light, and when thrown back it doesn't produce enough recoil (it has less than Ray/Rock from what I have seen) to propel it back. When it DOES land back into the stadium, due to its lightweight it loses quite a large chunk of RPM. Because of that, it usually loses to an outspin.
What about standard meta? High recoil has been labaled as bad, and yet Ray, a top tier, is a high recoil wheel?
Galaxy has high recoil, but is lightweight and doesnt produce enough recoil??? Sorry I am a bit confused by that. I only ask because you listed Galaxy umong the high recoil wheels
Said that a bit backwards about Galaxy. It does have recoil, but not enough to force it back into the stadium when it hits the walls. It is too lightweight and if it makes it back into the stadium, it loses a lot of RPM.. I said that in my previous post.
Ray is heavy enough to not lose a lot of stamina when this occurs. It hits the wall and is propelled back into the stadium. In a BB-10 it will just fly out and be considered a KO. Unless the bey goes into the pocket (as in touching the floor), it isn't considered a KO, and it will go back into the stadium more than likely.
How do I tell if my RF is worn?
(Mar. 16, 2012 4:20 PM)BigMac Wrote: [ -> ]How do I tell if my RF is worn?
You can compare it to a new RF, if you really do not remember what your RF looked like before you started using it. If it seems shorter or that the edges are rounded, then it is worn.
You could always post a photograph of it here and we will be able to tell you about its state.
how do you get the metal face bolt or the rev-up launcher?
can right spin beys steel spin speed from left spin beys
(Mar. 16, 2012 5:53 PM)ampharos777 Wrote: [ -> ]how do you get the metal face bolt or the rev-up launcher?
You can get Metal Faces from the DS game or order them on sites like eBay. And the rev up launcher is in stores across the USA.
(Mar. 16, 2012 6:15 PM)agentbeyblade21 Wrote: [ -> ]can right spin beys steel spin speed from left spin beys
Technically the left spin beys "steal" spin. But its more of spin equalization. If your looking for spin equalization then something like MF Meteo L Drago 100 WD or CH120 XF would be good choices.
if it is spin equalization then can the right spin bey also steel speed from the left spin bey
(Mar. 16, 2012 6:38 PM)agentbeyblade21 Wrote: [ -> ]if it is spin equalization then can the right spin bey also steel speed from the left spin bey
No. Left spin beyblades in MFB are usually designed to spin steal/equalize. The best example is Meteo L Drago. The rubber on the clear wheel helps it absorb more hits and the left spin helps it reduce the spin of the opponet.
ok thanks for the help dark mousy