(May. 27, 2019 3:18 PM)DeceasedCrab Wrote: [ -> ]Honestly, I find Standard format boring. and lacking in variety. It's why I'm thinking Classic is a more interesting format. You joke but that really might be the answer.
Or, we can go on a rampage run of bans (preferably to pP,rP,dP, and maybe to even hS).
(May. 27, 2019 3:18 PM)DeceasedCrab Wrote: [ -> ] (May. 27, 2019 1:00 PM)Valkyriology Wrote: [ -> ]I know what will fix it! Just introduce another format and call it a day lol
Honestly, I find Standard format boring. and lacking in variety. It's why I'm thinking Classic is a more interesting format. You joke but that really might be the answer.
I could see both God and GT getting their own formats down the line. ChoZ already has its own format, it's called Standard.
Oh no, I think burst classic overall is pretty good. It makes older parts viable, bans most overpowered layers and is still somewhat diverse. I just think maybe they should at least try with standard format.
Because GT, God, Cho-z etc are so different I do think it would be nice for each of them to have their own formats.
(May. 27, 2019 8:54 AM)Ash_Ketchum_007 Wrote: [ -> ]Kind of surprised that 00lift and wall are used over ratchet. Maybe, the winners didn't have ratchet at the time of the event?
(May. 27, 2019 7:05 AM)AirKingNeo Wrote: [ -> ]Just because Orb Egis can beat Perfect Phoenix doesn't really fix the issue. It's a mostly niche bey used to counter a meta pick; no different than bL on X' back before CzV was released.
Is orb egis the reason pP is still unbanned? Was it told so? Also, if you can beat a meta combo with a niche combo, I don't see what's wrong. Perhaps, you are saying that it can be beaten by aH, hS and so on?
No one explicitly stated that oE is why pP isn't banned, but what I'm saying is that having a format that is a triangle of an overpowered layer, a niche layer to beat it, and the rest of the meta layers that beat the niche layer but lose to the OP layer is not a healthy format.
(May. 27, 2019 1:00 PM)Valkyriology Wrote: [ -> ] (May. 27, 2019 7:05 AM)AirKingNeo Wrote: [ -> ]Another day of Bearing (opposite spin), Xtend+, and Perfect Phoenix being way too good and attack being voided. I wouldn't mind these parts being banned considering how much they dominate the meta. Of course, I doubt that would happen given the priority to have less bans than to have a balanced meta (just look at how Ωuter was unbanned for being more widely available rather than considering the ramifications on the meta). Defense and stamina already have Ωuter, 00Wall, Atomic, Eternal, and many opposite spin beys to keep up with attack. You could argue that this is similar to when people brought up banning rP, hS, and aH, and looking back that would probably have been a good idea at the time. They've all been meta for around 9 months as a whole. Plus opposite spin Bearing has been an issue since its inception.
Just because Orb Egis can beat Perfect Phoenix doesn't really fix the issue. It's a mostly niche bey used to counter a meta pick; no different than bL on X' back before CzV was released.
Also surprised in the lack of any parts from Wizard Fafnir seeing no tops. Would have at least expected Ratchet to see some use.
Yea it's honestly disappointing to be forced to basically run pP, hS, B3 with a bunch of other stamina parts to win. There hasn't been much of a change since last year of June. Its been almost the same meta, just new additions to the already great stamina/defense class. I guess Cho-Z V and A stirred the pot a bit but that's all.
I know what will fix it! Just introduce another format and call it a day lol
Well, there's also Dead Hades as a viable attack option, but I don't know if it beats hS and B3-Hasbro. I think the format is incredibly boring. We've seen innovation in the form of discovery (Orb Egis and Crash Ragnaruk) but no innovation from new parts. Shouldn't the increased availability of X' and the introduction of Qc' and Ch make attack stronger? Yes, but only if defensive beys didn't have so much going for them. Perfect Phoenix makes attack completely unviable. Bearing in opposite spin has been problematic since Bearing existed. Xtend+ has too many things going for it (tall driver makes it harder to knock off balance, wide bottom makes it harder to knock out and gives it LAD).
(May. 27, 2019 3:34 PM)Ash_Ketchum_007 Wrote: [ -> ] (May. 27, 2019 3:18 PM)DeceasedCrab Wrote: [ -> ]Honestly, I find Standard format boring. and lacking in variety. It's why I'm thinking Classic is a more interesting format. You joke but that really might be the answer.
Or, we can go on a rampage run of bans (preferably to pP,rP,dP, and maybe to even hS).
Well, no that would be senseless. Perfect Phoenix is the only problematic layer, since it's so heavy and it's gimmick beats attacks that almost no layer really can keep up with it. Dead Phoenix has good OWD, but that only helps against people who can't take it out the armor; most beys can knock out the armor so there's no reason to ban it. Revive Phoenix, while strong, has been caught up with in terms of powercreep with Cho-Z Valkyrie, Cho-Z Achilles, Dead Hades, and Ace Valkyrie. Hell Salamander has also been caught up with in powercreep.
I emphasize that only opposite spin Bearing, Perfect Phoenix, and Xtend+ are too strong of parts.
(May. 28, 2019 1:44 AM)Biggster Wrote: [ -> ]What oE combo beats pP?
Possibly oE.10/00 P/C.Xt+/At
But oE is highly Burst-able (in my experience) and if it can indeed beat pP consistently, it can only match to one overpowered Layer and still lose a lot to other Layers
(May. 27, 2019 8:14 PM)AirKingNeo Wrote: [ -> ]No one explicitly stated that oE is why pP isn't banned, but what I'm saying is that having a format that is a triangle of an overpowered layer, a niche layer to beat it, and the rest of the meta layers that beat the niche layer but lose to the OP layer is not a healthy format.
Well, there's also Dead Hades as a viable attack option, but I don't know if it beats hS and B3-Hasbro. I think the format is incredibly boring. We've seen innovation in the form of discovery (Orb Egis and Crash Ragnaruk) but no innovation from new parts. Shouldn't the increased availability of X' and the introduction of Qc' and Ch make attack stronger? Yes, but only if defensive beys didn't have so much going for them. Perfect Phoenix makes attack completely unviable. Bearing in opposite spin has been problematic since Bearing existed. Xtend+ has too many things going for it (tall driver makes it harder to knock off balance, wide bottom makes it harder to knock out and gives it LAD).
Well, no that would be senseless. Perfect Phoenix is the only problematic layer, since it's so heavy and it's gimmick beats attacks that almost no layer really can keep up with it. Dead Phoenix has good OWD, but that only helps against people who can't take it out the armor; most beys can knock out the armor so there's no reason to ban it. Revive Phoenix, while strong, has been caught up with in terms of powercreep with Cho-Z Valkyrie, Cho-Z Achilles, Dead Hades, and Ace Valkyrie. Hell Salamander has also been caught up with in powercreep.
That is exactly what I meant when I asked if you meant that oE can be defeated by aH, hS and so on (it was no coincidence I typed 2 meta layers. It was intentional). I agree with that. It makes the meta (a lot of times) glorified game of 'rock -paper -scissors'. If I remember this right, some tournament pro (I remember the name but wish not to disclose it) said that beyblade is involves RNG a good no. of times. I was shocked at first. But, it made so much sense later and especially now.
Dash drivers pose a few problems:
1) increased teeth wearing down
2} rarity
3) price (?)
4) rubber dash drivers wear down fairly quickly.
People might be skeptical to use dash drivers for he above reasons. Also, did you mean xt+ is short, so, tougher to knock off balance?
Why not ban all phoenix except iP? All of them are tough to burst. If the armor stays i the stadium, then it is a huge pain for attack beys. The armor gimmick although cool and interesting, it is kinda annoying if you think about facing it when you are using an attack bey. The armor can even break good flower patterns.
I was playing with my wife and she had stock Wizard Fafnir out of the box, and Cho-Z Spriggan (left spin) cut that thing in half like it was nothing. Does Rise have weak springs or does Fafnir have weak teeth? I am really frustrated that Cho-Z pieces have not "Cleared drafting" and have no analysis up on the Wiki yet. Who is doing those evaluations?
(May. 28, 2019 7:54 PM)monstructor Wrote: [ -> ]I was playing with my wife and she had stock Wizard Fafnir out of the box, and Cho-Z Spriggan (left spin) cut that thing in half like it was nothing. Does Rise have weak springs or does Fafnir have weak teeth? I am really frustrated that Cho-Z pieces have not "Cleared drafting" and have no analysis up on the Wiki yet. Who is doing those evaluations?
Well someone here in another thread was talking about how both Wizard and the new left spin base Dread raise the gatchi chip a bit which only allows for some of the length of the teeth to attach on the driver, making it easier to burst. I'm not sure if that's the truth or not , but looking at the teeth of fafnir... They're pretty good so I'm not sure.
As for rise I think its the standard strength for a stamina driver. Not the best but not terrible.
(May. 28, 2019 7:54 PM)monstructor Wrote: [ -> ]I was playing with my wife and she had stock Wizard Fafnir out of the box, and Cho-Z Spriggan (left spin) cut that thing in half like it was nothing. Does Rise have weak springs or does Fafnir have weak teeth? I am really frustrated that Cho-Z pieces have not "Cleared drafting" and have no analysis up on the Wiki yet. Who is doing those evaluations?
The wiki does provide lots of info and tips but this thread will give you a LOT more info about combo's and strategies regarding the current meta.
For stock combo vs stock combo help, your best bet is YouTube. There are some stock combo results on these forums as well, though they are scattered about.
(May. 28, 2019 8:43 PM)OldSchool™ Wrote: [ -> ] (May. 28, 2019 7:54 PM)monstructor Wrote: [ -> ]I was playing with my wife and she had stock Wizard Fafnir out of the box, and Cho-Z Spriggan (left spin) cut that thing in half like it was nothing. Does Rise have weak springs or does Fafnir have weak teeth? I am really frustrated that Cho-Z pieces have not "Cleared drafting" and have no analysis up on the Wiki yet. Who is doing those evaluations?
The wiki does provide lots of info and tips but this thread will give you a LOT more info regarding combo's and strategies regarding the current meta.
For stock combo vs stock combo help, your best bet is YouTube. There are some stock combo results on these forums as well, though they are scattered about.
Thanks! It's funny watching the Asia Championship and seeing such slavish devotion to "Top Tier" pieces. I swear most of the time I was watching either Perfect Phoenix, Cho-Z Spriggan, Hell Salamander or Balkesh, and soooo much Xtend+. However whenever I play, we usually have the defeated player keep rebuilding their bey until the champ is toppled, and I have seen some random stuff take down top tier combos.
(May. 28, 2019 10:19 AM)Ash_Ketchum_007 Wrote: [ -> ] (May. 27, 2019 8:14 PM)AirKingNeo Wrote: [ -> ]No one explicitly stated that oE is why pP isn't banned, but what I'm saying is that having a format that is a triangle of an overpowered layer, a niche layer to beat it, and the rest of the meta layers that beat the niche layer but lose to the OP layer is not a healthy format.
Well, there's also Dead Hades as a viable attack option, but I don't know if it beats hS and B3-Hasbro. I think the format is incredibly boring. We've seen innovation in the form of discovery (Orb Egis and Crash Ragnaruk) but no innovation from new parts. Shouldn't the increased availability of X' and the introduction of Qc' and Ch make attack stronger? Yes, but only if defensive beys didn't have so much going for them. Perfect Phoenix makes attack completely unviable. Bearing in opposite spin has been problematic since Bearing existed. Xtend+ has too many things going for it (tall driver makes it harder to knock off balance, wide bottom makes it harder to knock out and gives it LAD).
Well, no that would be senseless. Perfect Phoenix is the only problematic layer, since it's so heavy and it's gimmick beats attacks that almost no layer really can keep up with it. Dead Phoenix has good OWD, but that only helps against people who can't take it out the armor; most beys can knock out the armor so there's no reason to ban it. Revive Phoenix, while strong, has been caught up with in terms of powercreep with Cho-Z Valkyrie, Cho-Z Achilles, Dead Hades, and Ace Valkyrie. Hell Salamander has also been caught up with in powercreep.
That is exactly what I meant when I asked if you meant that oE can be defeated by aH, hS and so on (it was no coincidence I typed 2 meta layers. It was intentional). I agree with that. It makes the meta (a lot of times) glorified game of 'rock -paper -scissors'. If I remember this right, some tournament pro (I remember the name but wish not to disclose it) said that beyblade is involves RNG a good no. of times. I was shocked at first. But, it made so much sense later and especially now.
Dash drivers pose a few problems:
1) increased teeth wearing down
2} rarity
3) price (?)
4) rubber dash drivers wear down fairly quickly.
People might be skeptical to use dash drivers for he above reasons. Also, did you mean xt+ is short, so, tougher to knock off balance?
Why not ban all phoenix except iP? All of them are tough to burst. If the armor stays i the stadium, then it is a huge pain for attack beys. The armor gimmick although cool and interesting, it is kinda annoying if you think about facing it when you are using an attack bey. The armor can even break good flower patterns.
Rock-Paper-Scissor (Triangle) metas suck for beyblade.
Dash drivers haven't really caused teeth on newer beys to wear out in my experience. They're not really rare with Ds' in RB12 and X'/Qc' in RB15. Taller drivers make a bey harder to knock off balance since it will have more rotational inertia with respect to its tip contacting the stadium (by the majority of the weight being further from the pivot).
Those arguments are why I would have said to ban Revive Phoenix 6-8 months ago, but right now releases and powercreep have caught up to Revive Phoenix, so that layer is fair. Dead Phoenix dies once its armor is gone, so that layer is fair. Perfect Phoenix is overweight and has that gimmick, so it is not fair.
With the release of JJ, let us see how the current meta will change.
Here are my first four launches with JJ.Qc’ against pP.Ω.Xt+. the launches were not particularly skilled. The combo of JJ (JA.OOD.Qc’Zen) is also probably not optimized. I never bother to edit and show the good stuff. You can see for yourselves the launches weren’t really great. I think attack and pP are both okay. Those low RPM KOs by Judgement don’t seem to require that much skill actually....
https://youtu.be/mVofrFLDA24
(May. 29, 2019 6:04 AM)Shindog Wrote: [ -> ]Here are my first four launches with JJ.Qc’ against pP.Ω.Xt+. the launches were not particularly skilled. The combo of JJ (JA.OOD.Qc’Zen) is also probably not optimized. I never bother to edit and show the good stuff. You can see for yourselves the launches weren’t really great. I think attack and pP are both okay. Those low RPM KOs by Judgement don’t seem to require that much skill actually....
https://youtu.be/mVofrFLDA24
Outer is kinda light.. Have you tried OOC yet?
(May. 29, 2019 6:27 AM)Infinite.Zero Wrote: [ -> ] (May. 29, 2019 6:04 AM)Shindog Wrote: [ -> ]Here are my first four launches with JJ.Qc’ against pP.Ω.Xt+. the launches were not particularly skilled. The combo of JJ (JA.OOD.Qc’Zen) is also probably not optimized. I never bother to edit and show the good stuff. You can see for yourselves the launches weren’t really great. I think attack and pP are both okay. Those low RPM KOs by Judgement don’t seem to require that much skill actually....
https://youtu.be/mVofrFLDA24
Outer is kinda light.. Have you tried OOC yet?
Not me but other have. Judgement still works fine I believe. pP.OOC.Xt+ may also burst more. I think it’s important to note that the KO all happened while pP was basically in the middle with Judgement at low RPM.
(May. 29, 2019 6:34 AM)Shindog Wrote: [ -> ] (May. 29, 2019 6:27 AM)Infinite.Zero Wrote: [ -> ]Outer is kinda light.. Have you tried OOC yet?
Not me but other have. Judgement still works fine I believe. pP.OOC.Xt+ may also burst more. I think it’s important to note that the KO all happened while pP was basically in the middle with Judgement at low RPM.
Basically Dead Hades 2.0...
(May. 29, 2019 7:05 AM)Infinite.Zero Wrote: [ -> ] (May. 29, 2019 6:34 AM)Shindog Wrote: [ -> ]Not me but other have. Judgement still works fine I believe. pP.OOC.Xt+ may also burst more. I think it’s important to note that the KO all happened while pP was basically in the middle with Judgement at low RPM.
Basically Dead Hades 2.0...
Now I have tried pP.OOC.Xt+ Vs Judgement
https://youtu.be/3ZO70_gEc7M
Expecting to see more JJ users in the upcoming months now
(May. 29, 2019 4:10 AM)AirKingNeo Wrote: [ -> ]Rock-Paper-Scissor (Triangle) metas suck for beyblade.
Dash drivers haven't really caused teeth on newer beys to wear out in my experience. They're not really rare with Ds' in RB12 and X'/Qc' in RB15.
I agree.
But, they are
random boosters. You can't be sure whether you are getting the bey with the 'driver that you want.
(May. 29, 2019 6:34 AM)Shindog Wrote: [ -> ] (May. 29, 2019 6:27 AM)Infinite.Zero Wrote: [ -> ]Outer is kinda light.. Have you tried OOC yet?
Not me but other have. Judgement still works fine I believe. pP.OOC.Xt+ may also burst more. I think it’s important to note that the KO all happened while pP was basically in the middle with Judgement at low RPM.
Is judgment good on stationary combos? Also, it reminds me of the flash sagittario r2f combos which sometimes do those crazy low RPM KOs.
(May. 29, 2019 4:10 AM)AirKingNeo Wrote: [ -> ]Taller drivers make a bey harder to knock off balance since it will have more rotational inertia with respect to its tip contacting the stadium (by the majority of the weight being further from the pivot).
I'm sure I have seen people saying lower height lowers potential to get destabilized.... maybe I interpreted it wrong all along. Does aH.outer.rv get destabilized less often than its eternal counterpart?
Isn't xt+ anyway a shorter than average driver?
(May. 29, 2019 6:04 AM)Shindog Wrote: [ -> ]Here are my first four launches with JJ.Qc’ against pP.Ω.Xt+. the launches were not particularly skilled. The combo of JJ (JA.OOD.Qc’Zen) is also probably not optimized. I never bother to edit and show the good stuff. You can see for yourselves the launches weren’t really great. I think attack and pP are both okay. Those low RPM KOs by Judgement don’t seem to require that much skill actually....
https://youtu.be/mVofrFLDA24
(May. 29, 2019 7:20 AM)Shindog Wrote: [ -> ] (May. 29, 2019 7:05 AM)Infinite.Zero Wrote: [ -> ]Basically Dead Hades 2.0...
Now I have tried pP.OOC.Xt+ Vs Judgement
https://youtu.be/3ZO70_gEc7M
(May. 29, 2019 8:54 PM)Shindog Wrote: [ -> ]Safer (unless you’re me, see round 1) way to defeat pP.OOC.Xt+
Harder acquire yes. But pP is not OP anymore.
https://youtu.be/7jr1xFrMKOM
Stadium outs aren't exactly reliable, so I wouldn't use them for data per se. The other thing is that pP was launched first in all of these, which makes it a lot easier for it to be beaten, especially when some of this had some significant time between launches. Some launches of pP were with a Hasbro launcher, which are somewhat weaker.
Lastly, that isn't a logical argument because you haven't considered if Judgement is overpowered. So far, you've proven it is potentially fair compared to pP, but not the rest of the meta. It is possible that both pP and Judgement are overpowered.
Also, why Judgement Ashura? Not Valkyrie or Joker?
(May. 29, 2019 11:06 PM)AirKingNeo Wrote: [ -> ] (May. 29, 2019 6:04 AM)Shindog Wrote: [ -> ]Here are my first four launches with JJ.Qc’ against pP.Ω.Xt+. the launches were not particularly skilled. The combo of JJ (JA.OOD.Qc’Zen) is also probably not optimized. I never bother to edit and show the good stuff. You can see for yourselves the launches weren’t really great. I think attack and pP are both okay. Those low RPM KOs by Judgement don’t seem to require that much skill actually....
https://youtu.be/mVofrFLDA24
(May. 29, 2019 7:20 AM)Shindog Wrote: [ -> ]Now I have tried pP.OOC.Xt+ Vs Judgement
https://youtu.be/3ZO70_gEc7M
(May. 29, 2019 8:54 PM)Shindog Wrote: [ -> ]Safer (unless you’re me, see round 1) way to defeat pP.OOC.Xt+
Harder acquire yes. But pP is not OP anymore.
https://youtu.be/7jr1xFrMKOM
Stadium outs aren't exactly reliable, so I wouldn't use them for data per se. The other thing is that pP was launched first in all of these, which makes it a lot easier for it to be beaten, especially when some of this had some significant time between launches. Some launches of pP were with a Hasbro launcher, which are somewhat weaker.
Lastly, that isn't a logical argument because you haven't considered if Judgement is overpowered. So far, you've proven it is potentially fair compared to pP, but not the rest of the meta. It is possible that both pP and Judgement are overpowered.
Also, why Judgement Ashura? Not Valkyrie or Joker?
Judgement Ashura bc it looks good.
Stadium out can be inconsistent. But before beyblade burst....
Launching really hard could increase burst risk? I think pP was bursting a little bit as well as being KOed.
Other meta stuff. Weak launching these may be acceptable.
https://youtu.be/VvC4uoD59hg
https://youtu.be/vR1v1SWZSMQ
I am generally opposed to bans because it is hard to know when to stop banning or when exactly it is fair to unban. What to do if zwei is really good?
Hey can I get best combination with xcalius x2