(Oct. 29, 2018 5:07 AM)OldSchool™ Wrote: [ -> ] (Oct. 29, 2018 2:47 AM)The Supreme One Wrote: [ -> ]OldSchool, did anyone use aH At against you? Same spin Atomic is a hard counter for Xt+.
I did not see a single aH At all day. Everyone kept switching between Xt+ and Et. I even saw some one on Br.
(Oct. 29, 2018 4:17 AM)RedPanda2 Wrote: [ -> ]did you keep Xt+ in the same mode as well? could you please share which mode you found most useful?
Same mode. Stamina.
There were some instances where I saw other players start in stamina mode but due to the their launch or contact with opposing beys change mode to semi-attack or full attack. Unfortunate for them 
Did anyone find Xt+ (attack) useful against opposite spin? I think it is pretty common in Asia to go same spin (stamina) and opposite spin (attack) on Xt+. My own testing didn’t really show a huge advantage of (attack) against opposite spin but i’m not certain. In same spin I have Xt+ (stamina) beat by Atomic and about even with revolve. In opposite spin I have Xt+(stamina and attack) about even with Bearing and better than eternal and absorb, I do have eternal about even with absorb in opposite spin.
(Oct. 29, 2018 5:22 AM)Kei Wrote: [ -> ]Here’s one anecdote about my experience with Xt+ today: in my finals battle against Justin TC, he had aH.0.Xt+ and I had LC hS.0.Xt+. Initially instead of going for the mirror Stamina mode matchup, I tried Attack and Defense mode against his Stamina mode and lost both times to see if I could gain any edge that way.
Later on in the match, I switched to Stamina mode and ... won haha.
^^^
(Oct. 29, 2018 5:23 AM)Shindog Wrote: [ -> ] (Oct. 29, 2018 5:07 AM)OldSchool™ Wrote: [ -> ]I did not see a single aH At all day. Everyone kept switching between Xt+ and Et. I even saw some one on Br.
Same mode. Stamina.
There were some instances where I saw other players start in stamina mode but due to the their launch or contact with opposing beys change mode to semi-attack or full attack. Unfortunate for them :(
Did anyone find Xt+ (attack) useful against opposite spin? I think it is pretty common in Asia to go same spin (stamina) and opposite spin (attack) on Xt+. My own testing didn’t really show a huge advantage of (attack) against opposite spin but i’m not certain. In same spin I have Xt+ (stamina) beat by Atomic and about even with revolve. In opposite spin I have Xt+(stamina and attack) about even with Bearing and better than eternal and absorb, I do have eternal about even with absorb in opposite spin.
^What Scott said xD
I initially thought that maybe Xt+ could be perhaps something like less effective Metal Flat in attack mode, but clearly I was wrong.
Mind you, I've only owned Xt+ for 30mins before we started, so what do I know lol
(Oct. 29, 2018 5:26 AM)OldSchool™ Wrote: [ -> ] (Oct. 29, 2018 5:22 AM)Kei Wrote: [ -> ]Here’s one anecdote about my experience with Xt+ today: in my finals battle against Justin TC, he had aH.0.Xt+ and I had LC hS.0.Xt+. Initially instead of going for the mirror Stamina mode matchup, I tried Attack and Defense mode against his Stamina mode and lost both times to see if I could gain any edge that way.
Later on in the match, I switched to Stamina mode and ... won haha.
^^^
(Oct. 29, 2018 5:23 AM)Shindog Wrote: [ -> ]Did anyone find Xt+ (attack) useful against opposite spin? I think it is pretty common in Asia to go same spin (stamina) and opposite spin (attack) on Xt+. My own testing didn’t really show a huge advantage of (attack) against opposite spin but i’m not certain. In same spin I have Xt+ (stamina) beat by Atomic and about even with revolve. In opposite spin I have Xt+(stamina and attack) about even with Bearing and better than eternal and absorb, I do have eternal about even with absorb in opposite spin.
^What Scott said xD
I initially thought that maybe Xt+ could be perhaps something like less effective Metal Flat in attack mode, but clearly I was wrong.
Mind you, I've only owned Xt+ for 30mins before we started, so what do I know lol
I see. I have been fooling around with the Xt+ (attack) a lot. Mostly unsuccessfully... I tried a lot of things. Like a low the the ground attacker...
https://youtu.be/8mg_1XFH9rU
I do find the defense mode “defend” slightly better.
(Oct. 29, 2018 2:23 AM)Kei Wrote: [ -> ]BEYBLADE SPOOKTACULAR - 10/28/2018
Toronto, Ontario, Canada - Burst Format
As expected, Xtend Plus was the big new player on the block today. A week after release in Japan, it had found its place among the mix of Bearing, Eternal, Revolve, Atomic, Ωcta and so forth, so I knew what to expect going into this event. There's still some questions I have about how it interacts with particular Drivers, but nevertheless it did well. It shut down Eternal combinations left and right and was able to stand up to Bearing combinations, albeit inconsistently. Revolve can give it some trouble, but that may be down to launch strength. Need to test more.
Sounds kinda scary. Good thing is that it won't just sit in my collection like a showpeice lol
I have some question on your experince on Xtend Plus
1. What mode it was used on?
2. How does it handles recoil and destablization?
3. Is attack mode any usable? I mean we can use that to counter stationary attacker (when using aH)
4. Why did you used 0 disk instead of 7?
5. How well it goes with Frames?
Kei-Senpai Wrote:My usage of Lift (and Justin TC, who I let borrow it) is also worth noting. Up until now, almost everyone has been using Bump with Bearing. The only other person on a Winning Combination list that has used Lift with Bearing is Ardmore Bladers very recently. In Japan, literally everyone uses Lift with Bearing now because it allows it to stay upright slightly longer than other Frames usually.
Interesting. I seen some people using it on youtube but I didn't knew why they did so. how does it compared to 8'/0P? Also did anyone used 8' and/or Proof frame?
@[Justin TC] how rP Revolve did for you? and why not 7 disk? [/quote]
(Oct. 30, 2018 8:22 PM)FIREFIRE CPB Wrote: [ -> ]Sounds kinda scary. Good thing is that it won't just sit in my collection like a showpeice lol
I have some question on your experince on Xtend Plus
1. What mode it was used on?
2. How does it handles recoil and destablization?
3. Is attack mode any usable? I mean we can use that to counter stationary attacker (when using aH)
4. Why did you used 0 disk instead of 7?
5. How well it goes with Frames?
1. Stamina was most successful.
2. I find it easier to KO than Eternal, but that might be because it's taller. Maybe there's something specific that can destabilize it, but generally speaking it takes a long time to fall over.
3. I haven't tested Attack Mode for much other than to see how it compares with the other modes in opposite spin stamina battles, but that's a good idea. It might be work for that.
4. 0 has better stamina than 7 in my experience. Also in Japan, everyone uses 0, 10, or Ωuter.
5. Need to test more!
(Oct. 30, 2018 8:22 PM)FIREFIRE CPB Wrote: [ -> ]Interesting. I seen some people using it on youtube but I didn't knew why they did so. how does it compared to 8'/0P? Also did anyone used 8' and/or Proof frame?
Lift is better on Bearing. I think I saw OldSchool use Proof on Bearing at some point in the finals, but not sure if anyone else used it.
Meta Madness
London, UK - 27/10/18
Custom Ruleset: Archer Hercules, Hell Salamander, Revive Phoenix were banned from this event.
1st- @[Basedsamuraij]
Crash Ragnaruk 7 Cross Zephyr'
Dead Hades 7 Cross Xtreme'
Arc Bahamut 7 Proof Absorb
Deep Chaos 7 Proof Absorb
Arc Bahamut 0 Proof Absorb (Deck Format Finals Only)
Bloody Longunus 10 Reach Xtreme' (Deck Format Finals Only)
2nd - @[Mashoga]
Drain Fafnir 7 Bump Atomic
Z Achilles 1' Hit Yielding
Dead Hades 0 Bump Zephyr'
Twin Nemesis 7 Dagger Destroy'
3rd - @[Mr LT]
Winning Valkyrie 1' Hit Xtreme'
Dead Hades 8 Bump Destroy'
Geist Fafnir 0 Proof Zephyr'
Bloody Longinus 12 Reach Hunter'
Z Achilles 13 Dagger Jolt
Orb Egis 7 Vortex Yielding
I don't really understand the opinion coming out of the Toronto event that the meta is in a good place. It isn't. It's fine to think it is, but it undeniably is in a stagnant state and needs a massive change. When all but one combo on the Winning Combos for that event utilise the three problem Layers (as has been the case for many months now), I find it really hard for anyone to justify saying that the meta is in a good place.
So now take a look at our recent London event, with all three of the problem combinations removed. See a massive difference in diversity of combinations there? Attack was far more prominent due to the removal of problem Layers. While Sr Bearing was still a thing, the increased amount of attack usage meant that it was being ragdolled around a lot of the time, and wasn't the most effective of choices. Even Sr Destroy' ended up being KO'd often, likely due to the difference in weight compared to some Cho-Z Layers.
Special mention to cR.7C.Z' for being the MVP combination of the event, as Jay can agree. I'd been toying around with it on Destroy' and Zephyr' throughout the day before settling on Zephyr due to it's better stamina and being a safer stalling option. It hits a nice balance between being a stamina staller and maintaining it's potential to KO opponents.
Dead Hades has also proven to be an interesting attack choice as well, and the Layer itself seems to be have some decent stamina behind it. I absolutely cannot advise using it on a non-dash Driver though, haha. Gums are gums at the end of the day.
I won't talk a tonne here about the event as I know Jay intends to write a tournament report for this event, but I'm happy to answer some questions anyone may have. I'd firmly encourage other communities to try this custom banlist out though as, while it's drastic, I do think this is one of the best moves going forward to bring diversity and balance back to what is undeniably a stagnant and lacklustre stamina-dominated metagame.
Wtf happened to gF 0P Xt+???
Anyways...
It's interesting to see Yielding on the winning combos twice. The presence of Absorb is interesting too. Not sure what launches anybody used for Absorb based combos, but it's neat regardless.
Was eternal banned? I was a bit lazy and didn't read the tournament thread itself.
And the lack of Xt+, revolve, bearing...while frames actually existed for once.
But on a side note, how did Hades perform?
(Oct. 31, 2018 11:18 PM)Dragunix Wrote: [ -> ]Anyways...
It's interesting to see Yielding on the winning combos twice. The presence of Absorb is interesting too. Not sure what launches anybody used for Absorb based combos, but it's neat regardless.
Was eternal banned? I was a bit lazy and didn't read the tournament thread itself.
And the lack of Xt+, revolve, bearing...while frames actually existed for once.
But on a side note, how did Hades perform?
I guess soft to moderate launch? It has a decent LAD through the end, it's good with not so wide layers, Absorb doesn't really have a strong spring + layers with weak teeth but absorbs impact, I believe it's soft launch, not sure, just my theory.
To my knowledge Absorb is like a slightly better Revolve, but with some offensive power early. I haven't tinkered around with it too much myself, but it does seem to show some promise as long as you don't overdo it.
Alright, I've split off the discussion of the potential of removing hS, aH, and rP from play
into its own thread. It was kinda taking over this thread, but now you can continue on with the topic there.
Feel free to make other comments or post other questions regarding the Meta Madness (or other tournaments) here. Let's try to stick to the other thread for the "ban talk".
Beyblade Burst Turbo: Metal-less Fury
1st Place - Tangy Blader
LC Archer Hercules 10 Eternal
LC Hell Salamander 7L Bearing
Spriggan Requiem 0B Atomic (Deck Format Only)
2nd Place - Builder17
Dead Hades 4 Z'
LC Archer Hercules 7 Bearing
LC Hell Salamander 0C Xt+
3rd Place - The Supreme One
Hell Salamander 7L Bearing
Archer Hercules 7L Bearing
Hell Salamander 7C Atomic
Hell Salamander 7C Xt+
Archer Hercules 7C Xt+
Archer Hercules 0 Atomic (Deck Format Only)
[i]Hell Salamander 7C Bearing (Deck Format Only)[/i]
This tournament was certainly a stressful one for many competitive players, and the first time that aH vs hS Br matchups appeared to be a serious issue. In a number of instances, matches felt unwinnable with as many as 10 ties called in a single match before a winner could be determined, even when the rounds were recorded (in my match against Builder17, we had at least 5 ties in a row at one point!). The most challenging thing about this situation was that the winner (by a hair) of one match-up wouldn't necessarily win a similar match-up. I found myself switching between aH and hS Br and between 7L and 7C with no sense for which one was the most reliable. AerialSnack appeared to have the clearest win in a match against HyperBey123's hS 0B Br using aH 7C Br, but when I switched from aH 7L Br to 7C Br to try it out, I lost to Tangy Blader's hS 7L Br (the combo he'd seen me win with earlier on in the tournament). Needless to say, Bearing certainly dominated this tournament, but not without its faults - surprise bursts and KOs knocked a number of skilled players out of the running for finals due to the two-point burst rule.
One note: Builder17 used Dead Hades 4 Z' to win 3 matches in the first stage. In all 3, both players had agreed not to use Archer Hercules or Hell Salamander.
Metal Fight's Revolution
1st Place - The Supreme One
MF-M Jade Cygnus 90 MF
Flame Cancer 230 CS
MF-H Wyvang Samurai S130 RF
MF-M Gravity F230 GCF
Bakushin Leone 90 RSF
2nd Place - jackpotgodzilla
Meteo L Drago B:D
Pisces D125 R2F
Meteo L-Drago 145 WD (Deck Format Only)
Virgo125 D
3rd Place - Tangy Blader
Meteo L-Drago B:D
Storm Capricorne 145 WD
Storm Virgo 145 S
Earth Capricorne T125 D
This tournament was definitely a change of pace from the last. Everyone had a good time, though it took a lot of coaching before players accustomed to the stamina meta of Burst felt comfortable using attack. A quick note here that I opened a set of Pre-HWS beys for players to use during the tournament & it turns out the Virgo mold that jackpotgodzilla was using might have been a good one according to Yami. Will have to test more later haha
(Nov. 19, 2018 7:34 AM)The Supreme One Wrote: [ -> ]Beyblade Burst Turbo: Metal-less Fury
1st Place - Tangy Blader
LC Archer Hercules 10 Eternal
LC Hell Salamander 7L Bearing
Spriggan Requiem 0B Atomic (Deck Format Only)
2nd Place - Builder17
Dead Hades 4 Z'
LC Archer Hercules 7 Bearing
LC Hell Salamander 0C Xt+
3rd Place - The Supreme One
Hell Salamander 7L Bearing
Archer Hercules 7L Bearing
Hell Salamander 7C Atomic
Hell Salamander 7C Xt+
Archer Hercules 7C Xt+
Archer Hercules 0 Atomic (Deck Format Only)
[i]Hell Salamander 7C Bearing (Deck Format Only)[/i]
This tournament was certainly a stressful one for many competitive players, and the first time that aH vs hS Br matchups appeared to be a serious issue. In a number of instances, matches felt unwinnable with as many as 10 ties called in a single match before a winner could be determined, even when the rounds were recorded (in my match against Builder17, we had at least 5 ties in a row at one point!). The most challenging thing about this situation was that the winner (by a hair) of one match-up wouldn't necessarily win a similar match-up. I found myself switching between aH and hS Br and between 7L and 7C with no sense for which one was the most reliable. AerialSnack appeared to have the clearest win in a match against HyperBey123's hS 0B Br using aH 7C Br, but when I switched from aH 7L Br to 7C Br to try it out, I lost to Tangy Blader's hS 7L Br (the combo he'd seen me win with earlier on in the tournament). Needless to say, Bearing certainly dominated this tournament, but not without its faults - surprise bursts and KOs knocked a number of skilled players out of the running for finals due to the two-point burst rule.
One note: Builder17 used Dead Hades 4 Z' to win 3 matches in the first stage. In all 3, both players had agreed not to use Archer Hercules or Hell Salamander.
Metal Fight's Revolution
1st Place - The Supreme One
Jade Cygnus 90 MF
Flame Cancer 230 CS
Wyvang Samurai S130
Gravity F230 GCF
Bakushin Leone 90 RSF
2nd Place - jackpotgodzilla
Meteo L Drago B
Pisces D125 R2F
Meteo L-Drago 145 WD (Deck Format Only)
Virgo125 D
3rd Place - Tangy Blader
Meteo L-Drago B
Storm Capricorne 145 WD
Storm Virgo 145 S
Earth Capricorne T125 D
This tournament was definitely a change of pace from the last. Everyone had a good time, though it took a lot of coaching before players accustomed to the stamina meta of Burst felt comfortable using attack. A quick note here that I opened a set of Pre-HWS beys for players to use during the tournament & it turns out the Virgo mold that jackpotgodzilla was using might have been a good one according to Yami. Will have to test more later haha
Its good to see that Cross is being used on Xt plus as opposed to no frame. Quick question? Why did you use 7L. Most ppl use lift with something heavy like 10 and 0 for to increase weight.
(Nov. 19, 2018 7:40 AM)Infinite.Zero Wrote: [ -> ] Its good to see that Cross is being used on Xt plus as opposed to no frame. Quick question? Why did you use 7L. Most ppl use lift with something heavy like 10 and 0 for to increase weight.
From my testing and that of several other competitive players, 7 has proven to have better balance and usually better stamina than 0 & 10. Increased weight =/ better stamina (same reason most people in the VA area use Cross over Bump on Xt+ & At, since the former has far superior LAD)
(Nov. 19, 2018 7:50 AM)The Supreme One Wrote: [ -> ] (Nov. 19, 2018 7:40 AM)Infinite.Zero Wrote: [ -> ] Its good to see that Cross is being used on Xt plus as opposed to no frame. Quick question? Why did you use 7L. Most ppl use lift with something heavy like 10 and 0 for to increase weight.
From my testing and that of several other competitive players, 7 has proven to have better balance and usually better stamina than 0 & 10. Increased weight =/ better stamina (same reason most people in the VA area use Cross over Bump on Xt+ & At, since the former has far superior LAD)
7 might have better pure stamina then 0 or 10, but Lift needs weight so that it can stay upright longer? I might be wrong.
(Nov. 19, 2018 7:57 AM)Infinite.Zero Wrote: [ -> ]7 might have better pure stamina then 0 or 10, but Lift needs weight so that it can stay upright longer? I might be wrong.
Not really; Lift still keeps the beyblade upright regardless of whether 7 or 0 is used. It would require pretty extensive testing to determine whether Lift performs better on 0 or 7 as a whole because the difference between the two frames is pretty negligible and variations in parts and combos used will have different results.
(Nov. 19, 2018 8:19 AM)The Supreme One Wrote: [ -> ] (Nov. 19, 2018 7:57 AM)Infinite.Zero Wrote: [ -> ]7 might have better pure stamina then 0 or 10, but Lift needs weight so that it can stay upright longer? I might be wrong.
Not really; Lift still keeps the beyblade upright regardless of whether 7 or 0 is used. It would require pretty extensive testing to determine whether Lift performs better on 0 or 7 as a whole because the difference between the two frames is pretty negligible and variations in parts and combos used will have different results.
All I know is that 7L Br does worse against 0C Xt+ as opposed to 0L Br
(Nov. 19, 2018 7:50 AM)The Supreme One Wrote: [ -> ] (Nov. 19, 2018 7:40 AM)Infinite.Zero Wrote: [ -> ] Its good to see that Cross is being used on Xt plus as opposed to no frame. Quick question? Why did you use 7L. Most ppl use lift with something heavy like 10 and 0 for to increase weight.
From my testing and that of several other competitive players, 7 has proven to have better balance and usually better stamina than 0 & 10. Increased weight =/ better stamina (same reason most people in the VA area use Cross over Bump on Xt+ & At, since the former has far superior LAD)
If Cross gives better LAD than Bump, why is Bump more widely used?
(Nov. 20, 2018 1:20 AM)AirKingNeo Wrote: [ -> ] (Nov. 19, 2018 7:50 AM)The Supreme One Wrote: [ -> ]From my testing and that of several other competitive players, 7 has proven to have better balance and usually better stamina than 0 & 10. Increased weight =/ better stamina (same reason most people in the VA area use Cross over Bump on Xt+ & At, since the former has far superior LAD)
If Cross gives better LAD than Bump, why is Bump more widely used?
Because Bump is heavy and was heaviest for a while. And there are people who believe weight is king, above all else. Bump is bulkier than cross, so there is at least scrapping to worry about. I think more friction is not good for stamina. But on some taller drivers the scrapping is not as much of an issue.
Subscribe to Kap1357
London, UK - 17/11/18
1st - ~Mana~
LC Crash Ragnaruk 0Cross Zephyr'
Archer Hercules 7 Eternal
2nd - @[Mashoga]
Hell Salamander 7Lift Bearing
Archer Hercules 0 Eternal
LC Dead Hades 10Meteor Destroy'
Revive Phoenix 0 Xtend+
3rd - @[Basedsamuraij]
Hell Salamander 7Bump Atomic
Hell Salamander 7Bump Bearing (Deck Format Finals Only)
Archer Hercules 10 Eternal
Ragnarekt. That is all.
And only a single Attack combo in the entire list...
Is Crash Ragnaruk really that good of a push Attack/Mobile Stamina combo?
Pretty much. Main objective for me is to get the KO, which cR is pretty good at doing, but the use of Zephyr' and cR's fantastic stamina anyway means that it can also seriously compete for stamina finishes after dealing enough significant blows.
If KO isn't a good option (as tends to happen against aH Eternal), Zephyr handily rides the ridge of the stadium instead, which can make it a good option as a stamina staller as well.
DARK DESIRES WBO TOURNAMENT
(DUEL LAYERS IN FOCUS)
1st position : @[Sagarshahi]
Combos : Driger S 5Glaive Orbit
Lost Longinus 0Bump Destroy
Victory Valkyrie 7Cross Xtreme
2nd Position : @[LuckyKidBlader]
Combos : Dragoon S Heavy Zephyr
Holy Horusood 0Star Revolve
3rd Position : @[addyaustin]
Combos : Kaiser kerbeus 4Bump orbit
Xeno Xcalibur 0Dagger Destroy
Lost Longinus 0Meteor Hunter'
(Nov. 22, 2018 4:18 PM)~Mana~ Wrote: [ -> ]Subscribe to Kap1357
London, UK - 17/11/18
1st - ~Mana~
LC Crash Ragnaruk 0Cross Zephyr'
Archer Hercules 7 Eternal
2nd - @[Mashoga]
Hell Salamander 7Lift Bearing
Archer Hercules 0 Eternal
LC Dead Hades 10Meteor Destroy'
Revive Phoenix 0 Xtend+
Cool! Can you describe what matches you had with cR? And how did dH do for @[Mashoga]?
(Nov. 22, 2018 4:21 PM)MonoDragon Wrote: [ -> ]And only a single Attack combo in the entire list...
I would say both cR and dH on that list qualify as Attack types.
(Nov. 23, 2018 5:35 AM)Kei Wrote: [ -> ] (Nov. 22, 2018 4:18 PM)~Mana~ Wrote: [ -> ]Subscribe to Kap1357
London, UK - 17/11/18
1st - ~Mana~
LC Crash Ragnaruk 0Cross Zephyr'
Archer Hercules 7 Eternal
2nd - @[Mashoga]
Hell Salamander 7Lift Bearing
Archer Hercules 0 Eternal
LC Dead Hades 10Meteor Destroy'
Revive Phoenix 0 Xtend+
Cool! Can you describe what matches you had with cR? And how did dH do for @[Mashoga]?
(Nov. 22, 2018 4:21 PM)MonoDragon Wrote: [ -> ]And only a single Attack combo in the entire list...
I would say both cR and dH on that list qualify as Attack types.
Hades is my direct counter to Hercules. That combo in particular beats aH more often than not and bursted it a couple times in the knockout stages, too. The good LAD and stamina along with Ds' ability to constantly barrage stamina types with attacks meant if the matches lasted long enough to be stamina wins then it stood a chance. Being as heavy as it is it also retains speed while attacking whereas the lighter combos can't always keeo up with it.
Would recommend trying the combo out, it's reliable.
In regards to crash... It tornado stalls well and also does well to knock other beys out of the stadium if they ride the ridge. Looking forward to trying that combo out when the ChoZ custom set comes through. Crash performs well with dash drivers and I'm excited to see how well it fares with the newest releases. Seems like attack combos are starting to be relevant again! (For London at least lol)