World Beyblade Organization by Fighting Spirits Inc.

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Of course...? As long as their presence is properly documented and their matches are recorded, and they are not a banned user, there should not be any problem.
(Mar. 24, 2012  9:17 PM)th!nk Wrote: [ -> ]It's just single image posts that are outlawed as they aren't considered enough content (apparently the committee don't buy into the picture= 1000 words idea).

Spoiler or not, gotta have "content".

By the way, are we going to announce it or just start leaving notices/warnings until people figure it out themselves?
Given the lack of announcements, I sincerely hope no actual warnings have been given out for this heinous crime, and won't be until it is announced as the new nickname/double post/whatever.

Seriously th!nk, it just seems to us like you are trying to stretch semantics as far as they can go. For absolutely all of us in the Committee, among past Committee Members too, it was clear that "Essentially, keep this in mind: only post if you have something to say." refers to everything. If you post an image, especially one that is just a meme, you have nothing to say. If I or someone else posts the official picture of Pirates Oroja, that is a whole other context, and you know it.

You are a good Member, I do not know why you try to make things difficult sometimes ... Just think about this : would you really be able to replace your thousands of good posts for an image each ? We have always wanted quality posts on this site, this is nothing new.


(Mar. 25, 2012  3:32 AM)Blood Wrote: [ -> ]I want to ask this:
if a tournament was held by a fellow member, already has a full list of attendees, saw another person who wants to join but isn't included in the list, accept him/her?

There is something missing from your question, because I do not really understand what you are trying to ask.
ok, let me rephrase:
If someone who wants to join a tournament isn't included in the list of attendees, will the one who host the tournament accept him/her? even if he/she is part of the WBO?
Sure, absolutely, the host needs to accept them. More people is always better.
Ummm, would it be possible to hold a team tournament and if so in new york?
(Mar. 25, 2012  4:28 AM)aj740 Wrote: [ -> ]Ummm, would it be possible to hold a team tournament and if so in new york?

The World Beyblade Organization currently has no team format, and even then it would most likely only be for tag teams.

As for hosting a tournament in New York, the current issue is the availability of legal BeyStadiums.
Or, in my case, the consent of parents hah.
(Mar. 25, 2012  1:27 AM)Arupaeo Wrote: [ -> ]This isn't anything new, and no announcements are needed. Single picture posts have never been appropriate as they didn't meet the intent of the rule as it was written before.

The clarifying statement was added so that we can all stop trying to answer the question of how many angels can dance on the head of a pin...

It was unclear enough that I apparently broke the rule repeatedly, as have others.

Announce it, or don't warn people for stupid things they obviously won't be aware of if you don't, it's quite simple really. Otherwise, you just make the administration look opportunistically cruel. That's something I'd rather not be associated with, for whatever that is worth, and whatever that requires.
what if in the picture..there are words,sentence..?which shows exactly what they really want to type..but just that there were in the form of pictures..
It would still be a "one liner".

Pictures say a lot more than a single sentence, psychologically and literally. I'm surprised the committee is unable to account for that, but more disgusted that they won't announce a rule change for which people will be warned.

If you're gonna warn people for something dumb and unintuitive like that, do the fair thing and actually announce it, especially as there are probably about 3 other forums on the internet where it is against the rules. I'm a reasonably intelligent person and I didn't realise, sooooooo...
With the amount of vitriol you're spilling (over an issue you haven't even received a warning for), I can't imagine that everyone and their grandmother hasn't heard about it by now.

Be that as it may, as we've said before this isn't a rule change and there won't be an announcement.
Don't threaten me. You've made a poor choice, and apparently won't listen to reason. What else am I to do?

My ability to manage my "make good posts and don't get warned" guide is rather restricted by the rapid, ridiculous rule changes that keep occurring. Rules such as this are past the realm that common sense can be expected to account for.

It's enough of a change to start warning people for, it's enough of a rule change (or clarification) to announce.
Actually, let me first state this: the image macro I called you out on posting does not, in fact, represent a thousand words. At most, it represents you just typing "*facepalm*" or whatever emoticon bracket you personally choose. Most image macros contain absolutely nothing but some idiotic drawing and an internet meme, and most certainly the ones that are most frequently appearing. Those do not depict "a thousand words", "a hundred words", or even "five words", in many cases. They're colorful eye candy with, in 99% of cases, very dumb implied meanings. You're a big boy. Talk with your words.

Second off, no warnings have yet been issued, and for the time being, I'm just sticking mod notice reminders on people when they do it.

Stop over-dramaticizing every single thing to the point of it being a national crisis, please. This passive-aggressive nonsense you're dragging around at every opportunity, combined with your complete and total willingness to throw an absolute tantrum every time we enforce any rule or posting standard of any kind, is becoming a rather severe annoyance, and a public disturbance. I genuinely believe that, at this point, and probably ever since it became a problem really, you are not doing this "in the name of the good of the forum", but rather, "in the name of getting attention and making a big ruckus by raging against the machines".

The fuss you have made on every single subject recently has been overexaggerated to a point I cannot even describe to you, especially given that you seem to perceive us as handing out a thousand warnings a day for things that you never knew about. We do not often hand out warnings anymore, but let me just address a few things that you've complained about quite recently:

No Nicknames: This has been a well-understood thing for a long time. Why you're only now throwing a fit over it, I can only assume is to garner attention because your friend got warned for it.

No Double-Posting: This has always been not only implied, but directly stated on a regular basis by The Committee. I saw it in posts from more than a year ago before I joined. We do not even warn on the first, and in many cases second, offenses.

Image Macros: These have been getting erased or moderated out for a very long time - once again, something I noticed before I even registered. It had been a non-issue for quite a while, but recently, over the last two or three months I'd say, a little trend of bad posting and memes and image macros has popped up, and it is best nipped in the bud before the standard of posting drops from intelligent responses to whatever you'll find on any given image board. The old wording of the rules very clearly implied content should be valid, and image macros are not, in 99% of cases, valid content

I do not - and I will go as far as to say we do not - care what other forums' rules are. We have some more adjustments coming, to include the things you have mentioned lately.

We value you as an individual and as a poster quite highly, but your methods of approach are juvenile at best, and you're belittling yourself every time you make a post containing passive aggressive, yet pointedly snide, remark at nothing more than the tiniest breeze of provocation.
(Mar. 25, 2012  2:25 PM)th!nk Wrote: [ -> ]Don't threaten me. You've made a poor choice, and apparently won't listen to reason. What else am I to do?

I can't imagine where you see a threat in my prior post... When the administrators of a site make a choice, have listened to your suggestions and rejected them, what you are supposed to do is accept it and move on.
Away from all the finger-pointing and name-calling, I just want to clarify what this site has always been about.

We are an informative Beyblade message board, the biggest on Internet, and a lot of people should be looking at it for information. This has been acknowledged since the start, and that is why we have always asked for a high standard of quality in posts. That is why we only approve the very best for Beywiki articles. That is why we try to filter Event Proposals so that only the very best come out of it. That is why we do not allow rumours to be posted.

In the past, there were only approximately twenty active Members here, and they were all essentially friends of Brad. There were only a few hundred Members registered. Times have changed drastically for this board, and while there was a sort of standard in that past too, it definitely had to be enforced a lot more once Metal Fight Beyblade was introduced, and of course necessarily when Hasbro started developping it worldwide.

From that point when Beywiki started being the World Beyblade Organization and that our userbase exploded even by a few dozens each day, it has never been appropriate to post one-liners, in any shape.


Have you seen "image macros" posted before ? Why not, do you think ? I visit tumblr sites once in a while, and obviously other people do too, so we are not strangers to that concept. However, the World Beyblade Organization is not a place to post those sorts of pictures. Yes, we can relax and "have fun" sometimes, but you have always needed to do so in a written way here.
(Mar. 25, 2012  2:36 PM)Hazel Wrote: [ -> ]Actually, let me first state this: the image macro I called you out on posting does not, in fact, represent a thousand words. At most, it represents you just typing "*facepalm*" or whatever emoticon bracket you personally choose. Most image macros contain absolutely nothing but some idiotic drawing and an internet meme, and most certainly the ones that are most frequently appearing. Those do not depict "a thousand words", "a hundred words", or even "five words", in many cases. They're colorful eye candy with, in 99% of cases, very dumb implied meanings.

In your dismissal of these images you fail to understand any depth they present.

This said, sometimes, a sentence is all that is needed to make an important, relevant point. But, perhaps the use of humor to do so is "cruel", yes.

However, to see you railing against one liners, snappy remarks, and sarcasm is more than a little odd. Need I pull up some moderator notices or posts you have made after warning or banning users? Hopefully, you can remember them yourself.

So, perhaps such things should be left to you, seeing as you are by far the largest poster of snide/witty comments and one-liners of anyone here?

They're always amusing (believe me, most of us find them quite hilarious), but nonetheless, perhaps it should be clarified that such things are not allowed for normal members, but okay for committee members? Doesn't sound quite fair to me, but it does sound like a rather honest representation. You did say "leave it to us" when something similar occurred recently (in Random Thoughts 5, I think?)

Quote:You're a big boy. Talk with your words.

Case in point on condescension. :\

Quote:Second off, no warnings have yet been issued, and for the time being, I'm just sticking mod notice reminders on people when they do it.
Thankyou - this was my main concern.
But, if even one warning is handed out before adequate announcement is given, it is no consolation, either.

Quote:Stop over-dramaticizing every single thing to the point of it being a national crisis, please. This passive-aggressive nonsense you're dragging around at every opportunity, combined with your complete and total willingness to throw an absolute tantrum every time we enforce any rule or posting standard of any kind, is becoming a rather severe annoyance, and a public disturbance. I genuinely believe that, at this point, and probably ever since it became a problem really, you are not doing this "in the name of the good of the forum", but rather, "in the name of getting attention and making a big ruckus by raging against the machines".

That is your belief, it is incorrect. I do not care about attention, any more than it takes to make the point that you are, as a group, doing the wrong thing. I think that your image of me is quite incorrect, if you would like to discuss your opinion of me, though, do so through more appropriate avenues.

I, personally, believe I see more of the user response than many of the staff do. Perhaps because, as has been noted, users are afraid to approach most staff members, be it justified or not. Heck knows, even I'm uncomfortable approaching one or two members of staff.

Quote:The fuss you have made on every single subject recently has been overexaggerated to a point I cannot even describe to you, especially given that you seem to perceive us as handing out a thousand warnings a day for things that you never knew about. We do not often hand out warnings anymore, but let me just address a few things that you've complained about quite recently:

No Nicknames: This has been a well-understood thing for a long time. Why you're only now throwing a fit over it, I can only assume is to garner attention because your friend got warned for it.

This is an old argument, I have already made my point on it. It is not worth handing out warnings for any more. It was worth it at the time, it was not when I argued against it.

I was not interested in garnering attention for "my friends" sake either. I would appreciate if you kept such accusations to yourself, rather than smear them on me with little justification. It was not only because of that incident that I raised the point, there were a number of occurrences before that, however, that particular incident was the "last straw", not because it was a friend, though; because of the context.

Quote:No Double-Posting: This has always been not only implied, but directly stated on a regular basis by The Committee. I saw it in posts from more than a year ago before I joined. We do not even warn on the first, and in many cases second, offenses.

Your tendency to make examples of people instead of using more diplomatic means was the issue there, and the issue in the first part of this discussion.

Quote:Image Macros: These have been getting erased or moderated out for a very long time - once again, something I noticed before I even registered. It had been a non-issue for quite a while, but recently, over the last two or three months I'd say, a little trend of bad posting and memes and image macros has popped up, and it is best nipped in the bud before the standard of posting drops from intelligent responses to whatever you'll find on any given image board. The old wording of the rules very clearly implied content should be valid, and image macros are not, in 99% of cases, valid content

Glad you noticed it. No one else did, as far as I know.

Again: Your Bias Is Showing.
Again: Announce it, then.

If you truly want it to be nipped in the bud, why not actually make everyone aware by announcing it? Surely, it goes completely against your aim of "nipping it in the bud" if you do not.

Quote:I do not - and I will go as far as to say we do not - care what other forums' rules are. We have some more adjustments coming, to include the things you have mentioned lately.

Perhaps, though, you should consider what your users are accustomed to before they arrive here, when you are dealing with warnings and so forth. That is my main point.

Quote:We value you as an individual and as a poster quite highly, but your methods of approach are juvenile at best, and you're belittling yourself every time you make a post containing passive aggressive, yet pointedly snide, remark at nothing more than the tiniest breeze of provocation.

You must understand, there is one very big difference between us. I can be warned. I have been warned. I have friends who must watch their warning levels constantly, lest one small error push things dangerously close to the edge. In working to better understand other users (something I am still in the process of, given my less than admirable past in terms of respect for them), I realise that they all have this pressure too. This is why I am so hurt and concerned about things like this.

: Mainly the warning thing. Perhaps try to understand my perspective here, I'm a little tense, haha. If it was not intended that way then I apologise sincerely.

-V: I have seen them plenty of times, and I must admit, I do find many of them amusing. Different senses of humor, different interests overall, but just as I don't see as much depth in certain anime, manga, or pieces of art as you might, being less familiar with them, I am respectively more familiar with these kinds of things. It's not the perfect comparison but the main point is my perspective here. I could probably write at least a few hundred words about the "picard facepalm" image for example. If I actually watched star trek I could hit the thousand mark quite easily, I'd imagine. Images convey more than can be done in text, much more easily. Look at your own thread "The Cover's Book", for example. I'm not saying image macros are anywhere near back, but it is a similar thing, there is more than "oh look I took this screenshot and he's facepalming so i'll use it instead of saying *facepalm*".

Perhaps no one but me thinks about these things in the same depth I do when posting them, but then, I was the person Hazel decided to call out about it in an unrelated thread in public, so it at least bears some relevance.


Anyway:
Yes, I have almost certainly overreacted, and perhaps my behaviour is less than perfect, but let me make my point as clear as possible:

Firstly, when I say warnings, I do often include moderator notes in that term: it still stings to have one attached to your post, it still feels like punishment to many. Just keep that in mind when reading my posts, they may make more sense to you if you do, and do remember: I can't tell when you hand out a warning, attach a moderator note without warning, or so on. Try to keep my perspective in mind here.

If something is worth warning for, if warnings are required to stop something before it becomes a problem, then it is worth drawing as much attention to it as possible, as a responsible administration.

It is, in fact, counterproductive not to: An announcement will have much more effect on the type of users who set the example, the type of users you truly want people to be like, than warnings or moderator notices will.
More than pointing it out publicly when more, dare I say, well known, users overstep this new interpretation of the rules.

It may not reach every user, but it will reach more users. That is the aim, is it not? Prevention is, in all cases, better than "cure".

Perhaps, even, you should consider why these people are not aware, instead of blaming them for it, look at yourselves and what you could do to make everyone aware, before taking action.

Announce things before you start enforcing them in ANY way. That is what I want to see, as that would truly show your commitment to improving the forum, rather than what comes across to many users, particularly new users, as a desire to catch them out and warn them for things they were unaware of.

People should be given every available opportunity to not be warned before a warning is handed out. I can't catch every unfair warning or moderator note handed out, and yes, I do more often than not end up arguing over warnings given to people I am familiar with. I simply cannot deny that. But, there is a reason, and it is not me looking out for people solely because they are my friends.

It is, quite simply, because I am more aware of this. I have called attention to unfair warnings/mod notes of other users, but quite simply, I am more likely to notice it if it happens to a friend because I do know them better, I understand their intentions better, and they are more likely to mention it to me than someone who I do not talk to.

Furthermore, I do not take up every single warning handed out to friends. If it is justified, I'm not going to argue or dispute that. I'm not going to say "you shouldn't have banned bladerkenny he's a nice guy deep down just misunderstood k", even if he was a friend.

Hopefully, that clears things up. This post is far too long, but I did have to reply to everything as well as explain my point, as that seems to be becoming obscured.
There is no depth in ponies or facepalming images or any of those other things - do not superimpose a facade of intelligence on images that really do only represent one or two words. I could write a book about a leaf, and that would not change what anyone who looks at the leaf sees. You know what I see when I see the facepalm image? A guy - whose identity and context and even surroundings are completely irrelevant to everything in the universe as far as your post is concerned - with his palm on his face.

If I have made the mistake of posting only for the sake of a snide remark, then I will accept that. However, in any case wherein I make a silly or sarcastic comment in a mod notice(which is, for the most part, a tendency I stopped doing quite a while ago, though I do still err in some scenarios), it's not quite same thing as actually making a post with nothing but that as my message.

If I were really rallying to stop people from being sarcastic and snarky, a lot of warning levels would be a lot higher - you may recall that I have actually informed you on more than one occasion that I would rather have you respond that way to someone to get a point across than to go in and moderate or erase their messages. However, that does not immediately mean your response should be short and devalued by only being an image. My intention is to maintain the standard of posting whereupon posts are full of words, not pictures taken from whatever imagefarm people turn to for these things.

Calling people out has its place as a disciplinary measure, and it is still pretty far below a warning. Just as surely as I tell someone "Do not double-post", I will tell anyone else "Do not post image macros", and I will do it in any thread, anywhere, at any time I see it necessary, and if you object, that is perfectly fine. As someone being reprimanded, you are not expected to be enthusiastic about it.

When you insist upon arguing with it publically, that is when it becomes the debacle that you object to. Just because my message was slightly longer than "Stop posting image macros" does not mean it was anything more.If you don't want to be told not to do something you should not be doing, I'm sorry, I cannot assist you with that request. You were the individual most guilty of it within that timeframe, and that is the only criteria upon which you were selected.

Moderator Notices are intended to have a sting to them. They are meant to be a disciplinary action that is far below an actual warning - an action that is already not very severe, as you have indicated and advocated numerous times. However, they are still a pretty gentle reminder, and in absolutely every single case(as far as we are mandated - I especially follow this guideline), if a Moderator Notice accompanies a warning, it will say "User was warned for this post".

We take a fairly large number of things into consideration when assigning warnings in many cases, most especially ones regarding veteran members. Users who break behavioral mandates, despite being thoroughly educated and familiar with them, will usually even be given a gentle nudge(in the form of a Moderator Notice) before any action is taken, but not in all cases - and certainly you cannot really expect us to ditch objectivity in favor of individual reputation to an absolution. We will go to some length, but not a barefoot walk in a hundred mile desert.

I don't hand out warnings for observation-based rules until I have given at least one verbal reprimand first, and this is generally upheld by everyone else.

I have a lot of trouble with the idea of associating Moderator Notices with being as severe as a warning, and it is a point upon which we will never agree, if you really think that we should not use them as a reminder for people not to do things, and my use of them will not be modified in the slightest by your position. Mod Notices are an efficient, quick way to remind an individual, and those reading that person's post, that they have done something wrong, without actually threatening their place on the forum.

Regardless, being that the only issue up for discussion at the moment is the announcement, that is where this should go from this point. My stance on image macros is quite clear, as is my stance on everything else I have outlined, and I will not be changing those stances.

As for my position on the announcement, I do believe we should bring to light any changes we have made/will make publically, but I do not feel it will make near as much an impact as seems to be implied.
This is not a new interpretation at all though. As I have written, past Committee Members also understood the same thing from the rule, and that rule has been there since the beginning almost.
Sorry if this question has already been answered, but will Zero-G Beyblades be usable at official events like "REDEMPTION" next month?
A format hasn't been created yet. If they do in time, then yes I guess so. Otherwise no.
(Mar. 25, 2012  5:02 PM)Hazel Wrote: [ -> ]There is no depth in ponies or facepalming images or any of those other things - do not superimpose a facade of intelligence on images that really do only represent one or two words. I could write a book about a leaf, and that would not change what anyone who looks at the leaf sees. You know what I see when I see the facepalm image? A guy - whose identity and context and even surroundings are completely irrelevant to everything in the universe as far as your post is concerned - with his palm on his face.

Believe me, I have no particular love for MLP either.

I know what you see, because you refuse to look any deeper than your own shallow interpretation.

The context of Picard is quite relevant, there are associations there. Perhaps I'm arguing too much for their meaning, but I don't choose any such images randomly myself, and you chose to make an example of me specifically, instead of simply deleting the post (as you have said is the norm) or sending me a private message, or both. Either way would have been more diplomatic.
The implications of that particular character, which you utterly refuse to consider, were the main reason I chose that image, and also the reason it is a personal favourite.


Quote:If I have made the mistake of posting only for the sake of a snide remark, then I will accept that. However, in any case wherein I make a silly or sarcastic comment in a mod notice(which is, for the most part, a tendency I stopped doing quite a while ago, though I do still err in some scenarios), it's not quite same thing as actually making a post with nothing but that as my message.
It is exactly the same thing, perhaps worse, because your station means you set the example for more people than I do.

And I can draw up some examples if you really want, but it would be simpler to review your own posting history (I do so semi-regularly to keep a watch on myself as best as possible, as painful as hindsight makes things quite often).

You also have a tendency of being far less polite than most of us will consider, even in an otherwise meaningful post. Tactless, perhaps, inflammatory may be more appropriate. Just to point it out again:

(Mar. 25, 2012  2:36 PM)Hazel Wrote: [ -> ]You're a big boy. Talk with your words.
I mean, seriously what sort of reaction do you expect to get from that? It's hardly going to cool off an argument now is it?

And yes, I do believe it is not the job of a committee member to add fuel to fires, especially one you have decried so heavily.

I preferred you when you kept this sort of attitude to yourself and were respectful and helpful to everyone. That's the person who was made a committee member, after all.

Quote:If I were really rallying to stop people from being sarcastic and snarky, a lot of warning levels would be a lot higher - you may recall that I have actually informed you on more than one occasion that I would rather have you respond that way to someone to get a point across than to go in and moderate or erase their messages. However, that does not immediately mean your response should be short and devalued by only being an image. My intention is to maintain the standard of posting whereupon posts are full of words, not pictures taken from whatever imagefarm people turn to for these things.

I've already rebuffed the devaluation point.

As for why I bring this up, this was one of your stated intentions of preventing their use. So, it's fine to do so by words but not by images? I'm not sure I see the difference, perhaps I consider the two things much more closely than most, but either way, it's the same effect.

You may also note that I do not use images for every single post: I, and everyone else, use them rather sparingly. There is absolutely no threat of the WBO becoming an imageboard, and there are far more important things you, as a committee, should be focused on and concerned about, than the less-than-heinous-crime of posting an image instead of words.

Quote:Calling people out has its place as a disciplinary measure, and it is still pretty far below a warning. Just as surely as I tell someone "Do not double-post", I will tell anyone else "Do not post image macros", and I will do it in any thread, anywhere, at any time I see it necessary, and if you object, that is perfectly fine. As someone being reprimanded, you are not expected to be enthusiastic about it.

It has it's place, that place is private messages. I am sorry, but given you were very much aware from the last time you did it, you should know full well how I would react to you doing it again. It may sound egotistical of me, but calling me out for something just feels a little... opportunistic. The Worf Effect sort of thing, perhaps, I don't know.

Quote:When you insist upon arguing with it publically, that is when it becomes the debacle that you object to. Just because my message was slightly longer than "Stop posting image macros" does not mean it was anything more.If you don't want to be told not to do something you should not be doing, I'm sorry, I cannot assist you with that request. You were the individual most guilty of it within that timeframe, and that is the only criteria upon which you were selected.

Again, Private Messages: They're there for a reason.

Quote:Moderator Notices are intended to have a sting to them. They are meant to be a disciplinary action that is far below an actual warning - an action that is already not very severe, as you have indicated and advocated numerous times. However, they are still a pretty gentle reminder, and in absolutely every single case(as far as we are mandated - I especially follow this guideline), if a Moderator Notice accompanies a warning, it will say "User was warned for this post".

That helps at least a little. These things are not clear enough, in general.

As for what I have said on the fairness of warnings, no, they aren't large, but my concern about the things people can be warned for supersedes that previous notion. My opinions do change, just as the facts I am aware of change.

Quote:We take a fairly large number of things into consideration when assigning warnings in many cases, most especially ones regarding veteran members. Users who break behavioral mandates, despite being thoroughly educated and familiar with them, will usually even be given a gentle nudge(in the form of a Moderator Notice) before any action is taken, but not in all cases - and certainly you cannot really expect us to ditch objectivity in favor of individual reputation to an absolution. We will go to some length, but not a barefoot walk in a hundred mile desert.

Extend that consideration to all users, not just veterans. And, the fact is, there is one example that you have mentioned yourself already where apparently apt consideration was not given to even a veteran, so I'd be very concerned about how little thought is given to everyone else.

I don't expect you to ditch objectivity, I expect you to give everyone as much consideration as most committee members would a veteran, not by lowering your consideration of the latter. Unless they have past history that gives you evidence that their intent was worthy of warning, in that case, it is only logical to give it marginally less thought: it alone counts for a fair amount of the required thought.

You're hardly that great on the few active veterans the forum has left, yourself. It's no wonder a lot of users are, honestly (and as little offence as possible meant by this), absolutely terrified of you. Rule by fear.... not the best thing in the world, I'm afraid.
This applies to me heavily too, but it is something I am working on and don't deny to be an issue, unlike yourself.

Quote:I don't hand out warnings for observation-based rules until I have given at least one verbal reprimand first, and this is generally upheld by everyone else.

If you really want to stop a particular behaviour, make it as clear as possible to the largest number of people that it is not acceptable. Warnings, calling people out in posts, moderator notices, none of these are effective means.

Quote:I have a lot of trouble with the idea of associating Moderator Notices with being as severe as a warning, and it is a point upon which we will never agree, if you really think that we should not use them as a reminder for people not to do things, and my use of them will not be modified in the slightest by your position. Mod Notices are an efficient, quick way to remind an individual, and those reading that person's post, that they have done something wrong, without actually threatening their place on the forum.

They are not severe, but as you said, they still have a sting. All I implied about them was that they are still a punitive measure and as such when I say "warnings" I usually intend to include them too.

Quote:Regardless, being that the only issue up for discussion at the moment is the announcement, that is where this should go from this point. My stance on image macros is quite clear, as is my stance on everything else I have outlined, and I will not be changing those stances.

As for my position on the announcement, I do believe we should bring to light any changes we have made/will make publically, but I do not feel it will make near as much an impact as seems to be implied.

It would probably have made enough impact to alter my response to this whole debacle to a "well, I don't think that's entirely fair, but OK".

(Mar. 25, 2012  5:12 PM)Kai-V Wrote: [ -> ]This is not a new interpretation at all though. As I have written, past Committee Members also understood the same thing from the rule, and that rule has been there since the beginning almost.

Obviously, I didn't understand it from that rule, so what about everyone else? You cannot hold everyone else to your standard and your particular interpretation of a very vague rule. If it was a big enough issue to warrant clarification of the rules, then it is a big enough clarification to announce.
The rule is vague so that it indeed applies to as many things as possible. That was the intention. If you thought it was so vague, then why did you not think it applied to images too ?

We brought clarification because we wanted to just end this issue once and for all, but obviously when we try to do that, there is always someone to find other things to build upon ... As you wrote, it is a clarification, not a new rule.
I did not think it was vague at the time, I thought it covered exactly what it does at first glance, which did not include images, as you can see from my opinion of images, they're more than one-liners.

I would have nothing to build up had it a) been clear when Hazel called be out for it in public, and b) been announced clearly, as still needs to happen. You've all said you don't like warning people and want to "nip it in the bud": That's what I want to see too, and I don't see how the lack of announcement will do either of those things.
I do not know what to write, seriously ... I suppose that some people look a lot into words, others look a lot into pictures, and others do both. Similar to : Attack, Defense, and then Balance, perhaps.
I just think that any alteration to the rules, even if it is a clarification, should be announced, just like changes to the competitive rulebook. It merely strikes me as common sense, to save you all as much work as possible dealing with people breaking the rule, which was obviously enough of a concern to require clarification.
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