World Beyblade Organization by Fighting Spirits Inc.

(Oct. 26, 2011  11:51 PM)Shabalabadoo Wrote: [ -> ]

(Oct. 26, 2011  11:46 PM)Hazel Wrote: [ -> ]D125 is still very highly functional on Gravity Perseus - I'm not sure why you even bring up wobbling, as D125 doesn't wobble? BD145 is a valid addition, though.

I brought up the wobbling because people always say D125 because it has less rattling/wobbling. I'm saying CH120 barely rattles/wobbles so there's no point recommending D125 because the results aren't any better and it takes away a height change.

A height change that we have touted the uselessness of absolutely constantly, no less!

D125 is still a valid part on G.P. and CH145 is not a valid part on anything.

I don't even think CH120's height change is at all viable: It is purely amazing because of the 120 height, and no matter what Galaxy uses for 230, 120 can easily defeat it and many other heights!

Well then I'm sure out of the loop because I use the mode change a lot in my testing and playing around. But I'm no tournament dude.

(Oct. 26, 2011  11:55 PM)Shabalabadoo Wrote: [ -> ]Well then I'm sure out of the loop because I use the mode change a lot in my testing and playing around. But I'm no tournament dude.

The thing is, CH120 does everything CH145 does better. There are no combos, to my knowledge(and seemingly, Dan's), that CH145 dispatches better than CH120. Moreover, CH145 is largely, due to malfunctions, the potential of rattling, and simply the shape of it, inferior to other 145 heights, for Attack purposes.

Would it make sense to add a few more categories?

Example:

Spin Stealers (vs right spin) : blahblahblah
Spin Stealers (vs left spin) : blahblahblah
Anti Meta (vs fierce attackers) : blahblahblah

It also would be more interesting to diversify the classifications.
Attack: Smash attacker, Speed attacker, Heavy attacker etc
Defense: [insert types here]

I agree that we should have at least more information about each category - such as "Smash Attack", "Force Smash", "Upper Smash", etc.

More categories, though, seem as though they would unnecessarily clutter. Spin Equalization is not all that common, really. Anti-Meta I could see having a place, though.

The MF Gravity Perseus(Attack/Stamina) BD145MF combo I suggested earlier, for example, is technically a hybridization of speed attack, spin equalization, and tornado stalling capability. I imagine that would throw it into the "Balance" category, but I'm not entirely sure.

Uhm,i think that i said something about your current discussion 20 days ago,but not so people took me in consideration,lol!
Free to take my post as hint!

Again, I've already asked about that awhile back and it appeared like Kei wasn't up for it.

Galaxy:
Posting that giant slew of customizations as examples earlier, my god lol
It all really depends on the player(s) which makes the creation of a tier list hard.

(Oct. 27, 2011  9:46 PM)Dan Wrote: [ -> ]Again, I've already asked about that awhile back and it appeared like Kei wasn't up for it.

Galaxy:
Posting that giant slew of customizations as examples earlier, my god lol
It all really depends on the player(s) which makes the creation of a tier list hard.

Sorry Dan,you're right!
Edited my quote in a spoiler ;D

BTW, if you want also my help, feel free to write me!
And...yes... i'll talk with you about the aggressive view of the game,haha!

Bringing back ScoobyDoo's post about Balance. I have mentioned this several times in the past, and I still stand firmly by it. The meta nowadays dictates that successful combos have few attributes merged in together. It's somewhat 'primitive' to just categorize them into the 3 (+1) basic types that we're used to.

The meta has become diffused so much that pure types rarely place in the top 3 (Other than attack that is)

Defense definitely needs Stamina to win, and in some cases maybe a little counter smash. Stamina needs to be heavy enough to be taking hits defensively while outlasting the opponent. In some cases, a little stamina for attack is preferred (Metal Flat or by way of not cleaning up rubber bottoms after each launch, etc)

Attacks differ from 1 type to another. Same wheels (VariBD145 vs Vari R145/CH120 or even the LDrago series) can also yield different methods of attacks. All are competitively deserving to be placed in the tier list, yet confusing to most for they reason why.

If detailed divisions are a bit overwhelming or confusing, perhaps just a few simple sub-divisions would be nice.

I get that, but is Hell the right Metal Wheel to have up there for that?

Hell combinations get completely decimated by other more prevalent Stamina Metal Wheels, it is as simple as that.
I don't think Hell should be on the the tier list anymore.

(Oct. 28, 2011  3:46 PM)Shabalabadoo Wrote: [ -> ]I get that, but is Hell the right Metal Wheel to have up there for that?

Hell paired with a rubber bottom is still quite a tricky bey to face. The smash power exhibited in its counter is still worrisome to some extent, granted, not as scary as it was before 4D era.

Phantom though, is also a balanced wheel. What Hell does in Balance (Attack/Stamina), Phantom does in Balance (Stamina/Defense).

How is Hell even a factor in attack types? Even before 4D beys, Basalt was still around and Hell couldn't push it around with such amazing efficiency or near that of Lightning or Gravity which are now left in the dust by most of the recent 4D beyblades. (man, they are just rolling out on beys which just completely destroy Basalt, it is ridiculous)

Yo, we have some serious and obvious changes to the tier list to be made which should have been done with ease a bit earlier, no? Where do we stand with Blitz? Seems to stack up easily compared to Gravity or Lightning.. Which I only see as relevant now just because of their popularity, which is diminishing anyway..

Just because Hell couldn't take care of Basalt via attacks with great efficiency, it doesn't nullify its attack properties. If you notice, Hell vs Basalt matches will most likely end in KOs than Outspins. Paired with CS, it exhibits stamina / attack properties.

I agree with your 2nd paragraph. Blitz not being as popular as Vari/Gravity/Lightning is probably due to it being sold as a deck set, instead of a starter/booster.

Yo, I'm wondering if we should still have Gravity/Lightning on still..? Should we wait a for a couple more 4D released to put the final nail in and engulf the two? Low tracks have got to go. Though I was wondering if we should include 85 for VariAres since apparently it is wondrous.. (That would include putting 85 on Blitz whenever we decide, hopefully soon.)
This also brings me to Libra vs. Phantom because apparently Phantom is also very good for defense.
Man we need some comparatives.. :V

So I tested out Low Track Attack today. The only thing that could defeat Basalt 230CS and Basalt BD145CS successfully and with consistency was L Drago Destroy 100/105RF. Keep in mind that I don't have VariAres, Blitz, or Beat though.

This is what I think the Attack list should look like:

Quote:MF(-H) VariAres 85/CH120 RF/R2F/LRF
MF(-H) Blitz Rex/Unicorno 85/CH120 RF/R2F
MF(-H) L Drago Destroy 100/105/CH120/BD145 RF/R2F/LRF

Kind of a little harsh and drastic, but it's the brutally honest truth.

Blitz works well on 100, Vari works well on R145. MF Gravity Perseus BD145R2F/MF can also KO MF-H Basalt Kerbecs BD145CS and TH170/195/220CS. I've seen people that can KO MF-H Basalt BD145CS with MF G. P. D125RF, but I cannot personally do it.

(Oct. 31, 2011  12:36 AM)Hazel Wrote: [ -> ]I've seen people that can KO MF-H Basalt BD145CS with MF G. P. D125RF, but I cannot personally do it.

As much as I boast VariAres CH120RF, I can see that R145 can also do an efficient job, though IIRC in Keis initial tests, it got like 0% vs. MF-H Basalt BD145CS while CH120, well you know, blasted it out of the park with 95%..

I've KO'd MF-H Basalt Kerbecs BD145CS with MF Gravity Perseus D125RF before, but it is absolutely no where near consistent: 10% win rate is not exactly desirable.

I'm very hesitant about LDrago Destroy but I'm perfectly okay with Lightning and Gravity being scraped. (except for BD145MF, if you keep the RF variant on you have got to keep the Lightning BD145RF on.. I want neither on.) They have served their due time here.

I only insist so heavily upon MF G. P. BD145MF because it is probably the combo I have the most overall success with in general. It serves very unique purposes, and I'm not entirely sure it belongs anywhere but "Balance", but it is highly proficient at what it does.

It is the only "attack type" that I would utilize in a tournament situation my first time out - not just because it works well, but also because it is much more easily controlled even with a strong launch than RF variants.

(Oct. 31, 2011  1:46 AM)Dan Wrote: [ -> ]I'm very hesitant about LDrago Destroy but I'm perfectly okay with Lightning and Gravity being scraped. (except for BD145MF, if you keep the RF variant on you have got to keep the Lightning BD145RF on.. I want neither on.)

We're on the same page, then. haha
Why not bust out with MF-H VariAres CH120RF?

I don't own Vari yet, but in general RF is the kind of tip I wouldn't trust myself using my first tournament, due to the level of muscular control and focus required to use it competitively. Combined with an extremely high-recoil part like VariAres, and you've got a situation where I'd have about a 70% chance of self-KOing constantly, lol.

And, I know you were agreeing, I was just clarifying on my own behalf a bit.

Whoops, yeah, just noticed that haha. I should have read "I only insist so heavily upon" and understood, but alas, I did not.. :V

No big deal man: Practice and you're good! I must have self-KO'd like 3 times though I'm pretty amateur considering I've only ever gotten the chance to go to a single tournament..

Also, I noticed you need some carpin' giant RPM's for VariAres to get its motor running and OHKO. Is the same true for Blitz? I've only ever experienced that with VariAres, no other wheel ever before. I'm seriously for Blitz being put up. There isn't a reason not to put it up! What are your thoughts on Beat? It is pretty great and would not leave the tier list so boneless. What tracks, though? CH120 and S130?

Blitz actually scores reliable KOs at pretty low velocities, which is what sets it apart from VariAres and other Smash Wheels in general.

Beat is just not strong enough to use, in my opinion, in serious T1 situations. It can KO reliably, but it runs into snags easily depending on the track height of its opposition to the point of being nearly useless against the wrong tracks. The best tracks for it are CH120, R145, 85(for T2 stuff mostly), etc. Plus, using Beat properly requires deep banking with a noticable level of precision. I am not sure how well it does on S130, as I've never really seen it mentioned.

Some users claim they've been able to KO top tier Basalt combos using Beat, and it can handle TH170 combos okay at 145, but BD145 combos stick in its craw, and many other attack users I've spoken to discourage its use against those combos entirely.

Bad launchers, all of them!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TcliKb-ykEM
Shame it is so reliant on height.. Maybe CH120 can ease that bit and put it on the list.. ?
As for S130: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jlDbbrlu5LY&feature=related
Probably right-spin Gravity to make it much harder on Beat.

I'm pretty sure we all agree on Blitz, and that low velocity KO ability is definitely cool and unique.