World Beyblade Organization by Fighting Spirits Inc.

i took this attack ring once and cut the blades ogff of it just joking around(i had two of the same one)and put it on a sg sharp tip blade base and spun it up against wolborg ms

it unbelievelbly beat wolborg ms

This is illegal and therefore meaningless. Also, if it beat Wolborg MS there was something wrong with Wolborg MS. Did it beat it once or consistently?

Bey Brad Wrote:This is illegal and therefore meaningless.

Y'know I've seen a lot of your posts like this and I still don't understand what you mean. To what, exactly, in beyblade do you attribute "meaning"? If its winning in tournament scenarios, then I could definitely think of better hobbies for you.

I've made a lot of illegal modifications to beyblades I got bored with, on blades you and others would probably pay good money for, and I don't regret any of them. I understand that I can't use them in tournaments and understand the reason, too: what I don't understand is why its not appropriate to discuss on a site entirely devoted to beyblades (and entirely, the only site devoted to beyblades).

Marin Wrote:
Bey Brad Wrote:This is illegal and therefore meaningless.

Y'know I've seen a lot of your posts like this and I still don't understand what you mean. To what, exactly, in beyblade do you attribute "meaning"? If its winning in tournament scenarios, then I can definitely think of better hobbies for you.

I've made a lot of illegal modifications to beyblades I got bored with, blades you and others would probably pay good money for, and I don't regret any of them. I understand that I can't use them in tournaments and understand the reason, too: what I don't understand is why its not appropriate to discuss on a site entirely devoted to beyblades (and entirely, the only site devoted to beyblades).

It is the equivalent of posting on a Chess board about playing with all Queen pieces. By doing this you are breaking a fundamental rule of chess and therefore not even playing chess anymore.

Beyblade is a game of compromise and limitations. When you start to remove those limitations, you are playing a different game. Not Beyblade.

Bey Brad Wrote:It is the equivalent of posting on a Chess board about playing with all Queen pieces. By doing this you are breaking a fundamental rule of chess and therefore not even playing chess anymore.

Beyblade is a game of compromise and limitations. When you start to remove those limitations, you are playing a different game. Not Beyblade.

Your analogy is hardly fair because the scale of the effect of these modifications is greatly distorted. The game (beyblade) becomes nowhere near as different as chess with queens. A more comparable argument would be to say that soccer is not soccer unless you play with 9 on either team, and a proper regulation ball, field and net. Doesn't make much sense, now, does it? To deny that two players shooting two (admitably unofficial) spinning tops into a spinning top arena, waiting until one of those spinning tops stops spinning and then declaring a victor is beyblading just seems carp stupid to me.

However, I'll use chess to draw another comparison: Chess is a game about how you play with your given pieces. Beyblading is a game of how you play and with what you play with. There's no reason Hasbro or Takara's blades are sacred in this, except wherein tournaments where they are the only legal option. Beyblade, as I remember it, was a game of spontaneousness feuled by cunning; allowing illegal modifications only opens the door to new possibilities.

The "fundamental rules" of games like beyblading are those we're familiar with from experience and those that exist in a realm of common sense: Play safe, have fun. I don't see how either player using a modified blade (with consent, of course) should make the game any less a game of beyblade.

While we're at it, Brad, why don't you let me use my Driger bey-power, Customization Launch? You can't use any customized blades. Thats a pretty stupid rule, in my opinion, but I guess you'd be a hypocrite if you didn't abide by it, huh? You can't pick and choose. Joyful_2

To compare illegal modifications with soccer, you could say that it is like being on a team of players who cover more ground with each step, while the other team runs normally. Or that players can use their hands to redirect the ball. If it is an advantageous modification of course.

As for beyblading with a friend with two illegally modified beyblades, I suppose you can do it if you want to, but a message board like Beywiki cannot really encourage discussion on it, just like it would be inappropriate to talk about it on a more serious beyblade.com

Personally, I have always thought that a person was better if they could beat other people by dealing with the established restrictions than by ignoring those and just doing things their way.

Kai-V Wrote:To compare illegal modifications with soccer, you could say that it is like being on a team of players who cover more ground with each step, while the other team runs normally. If it is an advantageous modification of course.

The difference is that there are implications in that analogy, implications that the other, inferior team doesn't have ever opportunity in the world to, y'know, not play against her steroid-ridden adversary. Besides, this doesn't even entertain the possibility that our player A over there could just ask B to quit using illegal parts, and they could have a perfectly fun and fine game where everyone is happy! No one is forced to play any game they don't want to: Modders should respect that.

Kai-V Wrote:As for beyblading with a friend with two illegally modified beyblades, I suppose you can do it if you want to, but a message board like Beywiki cannot really encourage discussion on it.

Modifications take investments, as do legal customizations. Time, skill, money. Some have these and some don't, but they invade every competitive platform ever: this is not a new devellopment.

Beywiki should not discourage discussion on a part of the game (lets not deny it is: ideally to some of you maybe not, but yes, we've all played with and against fakes) many here would be lying to say they have never waded into. Why should craft not be encouraged? Let me explain my position on the ethics of these modifications:

-They (modifications) should be clear to all participants
-There should be no surprises
-They should be safe
-If they are not safe, precautions should be taken to make them safe

Kai-V Wrote:Personally, I have always thought that a person was better if they could beat other people by dealing with the established restrictions than by ignoring those and just doing things their way.

The restrictions were only established because you set them. Hey guys, lets play basketball with our eyes closed.

Marin Wrote:While we're at it, Brad, why don't you let me use my Driger bey-power, Customization Launch? You can't use any customized blades. Thats a pretty stupid rule, in my opinion, but I guess you'd be a hypocrite if you didn't abide by it, huh? You can't pick and choose.

That's not a rule genius... and honestly if you think that was the best you don't know the game very well. Launching 5 seconds after the opponent is a MUCH better idea.

These "spirit rules" were just the ones Hasbro let out there were a lot better ones in Japan and we don't adhere to any of them. They are just something established by Takara for the whole "Bit beast" thing kids went nuts over. Even then there are ways around most of them.

Train Wrote:That's not a rule genius... and honestly if you think that was the best you don't know the game very well. Launching 5 seconds after the opponent is a MUCH better idea.

These "spirit rules" were just the ones Hasbro let out there were a lot better ones in Japan and we don't adhere to any of them. They are just something established by Takara for the whole "Bit beast" thing kids went nuts over. Even then there are ways around most of them.

The customization launch was sensitive to the context, so I chose it. I recognize that thats a better power. Joyful_3

Thats not a rule, hm. You actually just called them "spirit rules", and my entire point was that you chose not to adhere by them for no reason other than that you don't agree with them. Kind of like I choose not to adhere by certain rules. Don't want to play that way? Thats alright, we'll play with official parts!

My point is, what right does beywiki have to determine what rules are fair and which are not? Discussion should be allowed and ENCOURAGED on part of all parties and all that has to do with beyblades, ESPECIALLY since with this issue its largely an issue of values.

Why don't all athlete just take steroids then if it'll make them better at what they do then? But look, we don't have any say in what you mod or not. Just don't bring in your illegal discussions here since, as you can see, it's not encouraged since we try to play the game as legit as possible. It's been this way in the main Bey community for years now.

Btw, those "Spirit Rules" are literally carp and the only people who play with them are the non serious bladers.

Marin, if you "want to play that way", then you are not really playing Beyblade the actual way.

Also, I edited my post while you were writing your reply, so I would appreciate that you revise your answer so that I do not have to repeat myself when I find the time to better reply to your message.

Marin Wrote:
Bey Brad Wrote:It is the equivalent of posting on a Chess board about playing with all Queen pieces. By doing this you are breaking a fundamental rule of chess and therefore not even playing chess anymore.

Beyblade is a game of compromise and limitations. When you start to remove those limitations, you are playing a different game. Not Beyblade.

Your analogy is hardly fair because the scale of the effect of these modifications is greatly distorted. The game (beyblade) becomes nowhere near as different as chess with queens.
I can have my father make a perfectly round beyblade that spins on a bearing core tip made of metal that will beat Wolborg MS every time in either spin direction. Hell, Imagine what Anubis can do.

While we're at it, Brad, why don't you let me use my Driger bey-power, Customization Launch? You can't use any customized blades. Thats a pretty stupid rule, in my opinion, but I guess you'd be a hypocrite if you didn't abide by it, huh? You can't pick and choose.
I'm pretty sure that not even Hasbro ever ran a tournament based on those rules.

Marin Wrote:While we're at it, Brad, why don't you let me use my Driger bey-power, Customization Launch? You can't use any customized blades. Thats a pretty stupid rule, in my opinion, but I guess you'd be a hypocrite if you didn't abide by it, huh? You can't pick and choose.

Thats not a rule, hm. You actually just called them "spirit rules", and my entire point was that you chose not to adhere by them for no reason other than that you don't agree with them. Kind of like I choose not to adhere by certain rules. Don't want to play that way?

Yeah, this basically ensures I'll never take anything you say seriously again. We follow the official Takara tournament ruleset, because, let's be honest, this forum is for discussion of serious play. This is not an actual rule. If we want to follow Hasbro's rules, we can't use Takara Beyblades or stadiums either.

Quote:To deny that two players shooting two (admitably unofficial) spinning tops into a spinning top arena, waiting until one of those spinning tops stops spinning and then declaring a victor is beyblading just seems carp stupid to me.

Well then I guess I'm carp stupid. That sounds like a spinning top battle, not a Beybattle. In case you weren't aware, there were battling spinning top games before Beyblade came along. However, Beyblade is a trademark of TAKARA-TOMY. Therefore, anything not manufactured by TAKARA-TOMY (or its official licensees) is not actually a Beyblade. If you want to open your own website for generic spinning top battles, you can go ahead and do that. However, Beywiki's goal is to be an authoritative resource for Beyblade. Encouraging this is antithetical to our goal.

Honestly, if you came just to be a carp, then you can leave because it's not welcome here. Your arguing with semantics with people who clearly disagree with you is not doing you any favours.

No favours, nope, no favours.

G Wrote:Why don't all athlete just take steroids then if it'll make them better at what they do then? But look, we don't have any say in what you mod or not. Just don't bring in your illegal discussions here since, as you can see, it's not encouraged since we try to play the game as legit as possible. It's been this way in the main Bey community for years now.

Because steroids are disallowed because they're a health risk. Anyway, people are missing the point: modding beyblades has everything to do with beyblades: theres no reason they shouldn't be allowed to be discussed, except that its illegal. Some see this as a valid reason and I don't see this as a valid reason, I'm exercising my right to show you my side of things. Joyful_3

Quote:Btw, those "Spirit Rules" are literally carp and the only people who play with them are the non serious bladers.

I know, thats my point. You chose not to follow those rules because you don't like them and think they're stupid. If someone approached you, raving on about how you had to play with spirit rules, what might you do?

Well, you might:

Use the rules

Not play with them

Politely ask them to play without them, trying to show them your side of things!

I'm trying to do the latter with this entire discussion, argument, whatever you want to call it. I'm being civil and pretty easy-go about it all so I don't really know why some people seem so adamant.

Cye Kinomiya Wrote:
Marin Wrote:
Bey Brad Wrote:It is the equivalent of posting on a Chess board about playing with all Queen pieces. By doing this you are breaking a fundamental rule of chess and therefore not even playing chess anymore.

Beyblade is a game of compromise and limitations. When you start to remove those limitations, you are playing a different game. Not Beyblade.

Your analogy is hardly fair because the scale of the effect of these modifications is greatly distorted. The game (beyblade) becomes nowhere near as different as chess with queens.
I can have my father make a perfectly round beyblade that spins on a bearing core tip made of metal that will beat Wolborg MS every time in either spin direction. Hell, Imagine what Anubis can do.

Consider the ramifications of playing a chess game without kings and get back to me on that one. :-P

Bey Brad Wrote:Yeah, this basically ensures I'll never take anything you say seriously again. We follow the official Takara tournament ruleset, because, let's be honest, this forum is for discussion of serious play. This is not an actual rule. If we want to follow Hasbro's rules, we can't use Takara Beyblades or stadiums either.

If you genuinely feel that way I'd hope you reconsider. Joyful_3

Read above; it may not have been the best example, yes, but its hardly fair to judge someone based entirely on one flawed illustration. I wouldn't do it to any of you and I would hope you'd all grant me the same leeway.

Anyways, the name of this sub-board is Beyblade General. The description reads, General discussion about the Beyblade hobby can be found here. There are no rules reserved for this sub-board, unless I'm missing a sticky. Therefore, this is all up to debate. You say, "we" follow the official Takara tournament ruleset... who is we? You certainly don't speak for our Original Post, here, or I. Beyblading was always a lot less formal for me, and I hope to learn as much as I can about all the rules so I can play with whoever I serve to play with however I want to. I joined this board to learn these things and make new friends, and I have no doubt there are things to be taught. But I'd again, hope you wouldn't make sweeping generalizations of my credibility based on one of my less powerful arguments.

Quote:
Quote:To deny that two players shooting two (admitably unofficial) spinning tops into a spinning top arena, waiting until one of those spinning tops stops spinning and then declaring a victor is beyblading just seems carp stupid to me.

Bey Brad Wrote:Well then I guess I'm carp stupid. That sounds like a spinning top battle, not a Beybattle. In case you weren't aware, there were battling spinning top games before Beyblade came along. However, Beyblade is a trademark of TAKARA-TOMY. Therefore, anything not manufactured by TAKARA-TOMY (or its official licensees) is not actually a Beyblade. If you want to open your own website for generic spinning top battles, you can go ahead and do that. However, Beywiki's goal is to be an authoritative resource for Beyblade. Encouraging this is antithetical to our goal.

Of course I knew they were around before. But I think that you don't discern between Beywiki and the Beywiki forum when discerns need to be made. It was my understanding that the forum served a dual-purpose: to both be a reputable resource, and a place for Bladers to congregate, and share. I'd imagine that modding blades would be a like interest among the 'Blading community; perhaps not. Since no one seems to be interested, though, I suppose its not much lost love. Besides, if it looks like a blade, spins like a blade... launches from an official beyblade launcher into an official beystadium... :-P

Bey Brad Wrote:Honestly, if you came just to be a carp, then you can leave because it's not welcome here. Your arguing with semantics with people who clearly disagree with you is not doing you any favours.

I don't think I was. This is the only thread, for the record, I've even had any form (however civil, but I'm not the one complaining here) conflict with anyone. I said I thought an argument was stupid (technically carp stupid) because I thought an argument was carp stupid. I'd serve no one to have said anything else. The rule is, I'm paraphrasing, don't say things you wouldn't to your mother, no? Ergo, I break no rules (Don't worry; its mutual XD)
I'm sorry, for what its worth, if what I said to you made you feel this way. I don't see otherwise how I'm being a carp; just sharing my opinion, one different from yours. If its something else, speak up, yo, but I really have no idea what you mean, sorry Lips_sealed

Kai-V: Duly noted, I stand by my opinions, I don't think anything changes.

MADDERMADCAT Wrote:No favours, nope, no favours.

I'd imagine that modding blades would be a, like, interest among the 'Blading community; omigawd.

I hope this carp is tight 'cause I really have to study more than I have to edit Joyful_2

Soccer isn't soccer if you don't use a regulation net. It becomes 'relocate with your foot a quantity of air contained in a 32-panel leather enclosure into a sinfully irregular net', guise. Golly.

Locking this thread now.

Taru

Bey Brad

Marin

Bey Brad

Marin

Kai-V

Marin

Train

Marin

G

Kai-V

Cye Kinomiya

Bey Brad

Maddermadcat

Marin

Maddermadcat

Bey Brad