World Beyblade Organization by Fighting Spirits Inc.

Full Version: Should we ban the Karma disc?
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In PeterPig’s Guilty Longinus video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfKvvVXr...ACPeterPig) there’s a battle against Cyclone Ragnaruk, in which one of the wings on Cyclone breaks. I looked at it a little closer and what happened was that Guilty jumped when it hit the stadium and was able to hit Cyclone with it’s disc. I fear that on left-spin combos, the Kr disc might cause more severe breakage than 12, which is required to have a frame to help prevent it from damaging beys. But the Kr disc doesn’t have any extra parts that could block those contacts. Kr is also much heavier than 12, leading to more force behind it’s attacks. In addition, it’s spikes/blades are alternating, so the contacts have much more exposure compared to a similarly shaped disc, Nine, which had the contacts block each other a little. Furthermore, it’s much wider, so it’s more likely to reach another bey. Due to these reasons, I propose that we consider banning the disc on left-spin combos or just ban it entirely (after more testing, of course).
The part is not even out yet. We have ONE VIDEO with an extremely unlikely hit of a relatively fragile part on a Beyblade used who knows how many times breaking - again, from an extremely unlikely hit, and we're out here calling to ban it?

Any break in a match with karma is going to be blamed on karma at this point anyway, and I knew there would be calls for it or guilty to be banned for part breakage (especially when I saw that vid earlier today) but wow. Before the actual release date.
Seriously man? ONE video and you say something like this? Please, just wait until the part is out and test and see if the part actually does stuff like this instead of being an unlikely break. It’s not even out yet, just wait until it is and people get it and try it out before making a thread for this.
i dont think u should ban it
ok i definitely jumped to conclusions, but i am still a little weary about the disc. i think that we could probably bring back this conversation if any more breaking shows up as a result of the disc after guilty releases
(Sep. 08, 2021  3:09 PM)th!nk Wrote: [ -> ]The part is not even out yet. We have ONE VIDEO with an extremely unlikely hit of a relatively fragile part on a Beyblade used who knows how many times breaking - again, from an extremely unlikely hit, and we're out here calling to ban it?

Any break in a match with karma is going to be blamed on karma at this point anyway, and I knew there would be calls for it or guilty to be banned for part breakage (especially when I saw that vid earlier today) but wow. Before the actual release date.

Agreed 

I don't trust PeterPigs videos to see breakage for stuff or to REALLY see if something should be banned, you can see his Savior stuff when Tempest broke. 

We have to wait until the following week and see if people encounter the same issue.
1- Cyclones wing break could be fake
2- the wing might have already been damaged
3- don’t believe everything you see
4- it was a 1 in a million chance
5- could be rigged
6- beys are in low mode, disc won’t even make contact much
7- it’s one video
I feel like this topic should be discussed when more people actually have Guilty, and something to note is that 1. something like that is probably 1 in a million chances, not even the 12 disk could do that much damage and look how jagged it is and 2. Peterpigs launch technique is very wack so thats what causes the beys to jump when they land so thats probably what caused the disk to layer contact but a normal launch doesnt normally cause big jumps like the ones in his videos.

since most people are gonna use Low Mode competitively since it is obviously the better mode (this excludes people who are gonna use Dynamite+LF) so this is probably not going to be much of an issue considering the bey is gonna be shorter and is gonna be partially covered up thanks to whatever Armor you use.

For now, i think a ban is a bit unnecessary especially for a part thats not really accessible at the moment.
I would also like to remind everyone that in plastics, one of the most popular weight disks back in the day was a wide circle literally wrapped in sandpaper and this was used as a combos primary contact surface with the opponent. Beyblades have also traditionally been advertised as breaking others to show off their power in marketing. As someone who grew up with plastics, I feel like burst and even to an extent MFB peeps can be a little spoilt about part breakage and damage. It sucks, but it is a natural part of the game.
peter pig has a lot of breakage in his videos from what i see and also i think its pretty normal for parts to break.
Well, although Karma does look sharp, I think it would only make contact if Karma combo is in high mode. But we need to wait and see.
Considering the new Longinus isn't even officially released yet (it officially releases on the 11th), I say we should wait, although it would still be a good idea to keep an eye on it.
It’s just fear! Don’t be scared bladed with all your heart but ban drift 🤣
(Oct. 05, 2021  4:39 PM)Makinghistory1 Wrote: [ -> ]It’s just fear! Don’t be scared bladed with all your heart but ban drift 🤣

Drift is fine. People still need to grow up and start finding ways to beat things instead of just giving up and calling for a ban. People really do call for bans way too easily these days.
(Oct. 05, 2021  11:56 PM)MagikHorse Wrote: [ -> ]
(Oct. 05, 2021  4:39 PM)Makinghistory1 Wrote: [ -> ]It’s just fear! Don’t be scared bladed with all your heart but ban drift 🤣

Drift is fine. People still need to grow up and start finding ways to beat things instead of just giving up and calling for a ban. People really do call for bans way too easily these days.
Attack simply isn’t always going to work. It’s viable, sure, but it won’t ALWAYS work against drift. Skilled drift users can defend against such, so it won’t necessarily be enough.

You really think people spamming attack is gonna just work? The meta is LAD oriented, vastly, and it needs to change because of the large amount of ties. You don’t see an issue with a LAD oriented meta? Please grow up and realize there’s an issue that needs to be solved here, and attack isn’t enough to solve it.

Edit: This isn’t even a thread to talk about this. Why bring it up here?
(Oct. 06, 2021  1:00 AM)BuilderROB Wrote: [ -> ]
(Oct. 05, 2021  11:56 PM)MagikHorse Wrote: [ -> ]Drift is fine. People still need to grow up and start finding ways to beat things instead of just giving up and calling for a ban. People really do call for bans way too easily these days.
Attack simply isn’t always going to work. It’s viable, sure, but it won’t ALWAYS work against drift. Skilled drift users can defend against such, so it won’t necessarily be enough.

You really think people spamming attack is gonna just work? The meta is LAD oriented, vastly, and it needs to change because of the large amount of ties. You don’t see an issue with a LAD oriented meta? Please grow up and realize there’s an issue that needs to be solved here, and attack isn’t enough to solve it.

Edit: This isn’t even a thread to talk about this. Why bring it up here?

First of all, it was brought up only because of MakingHistory mentioning a ban on it. I'm not the origin of the topic, their post was quoted in mine, why are you so surprised? You did read it too... right?

Still, you seem to be taking my defense as a claim that there's not a problem, but that couldn't be further from the truth. I've judged and co-organized multiple Standard tournaments and seen it for myself. I just don't see this ban as the answer to the problem, and think it solves little to nothing. You jumped to a false conclusion.

Think about it: What do you achieve with this ban? Banning Drift just because "there's too many ties" doesn't solve the issue by itself, nor does it really even help when you get Bearing spam, or Zone'+Z spam, or Mobius spam instead. There will always be a top LAD contender to replace anything you ban. There's just no fair place to draw the line of what is "too much LAD", and you're still going to get those ties no matter what as long as LAD remains viable in the game. No, clearly banning parts does not solve the tying issue.

If this isn't the true answer, then you have to look deeper to find what is. Realistically this problem is something intrinsic to the low KO and Burst rates in the game, the true root cause that let's LAD thrive so heavily. The only solutions are to find other ways of dealing with Drift, or to introduce new parts that can exploit LAD builds better (probably in the form of more Attack).

Please kindly think before leaping to false conclusions, and try to understand the heart of the issue before considering supporting a ban on anything. Bans are the last resort when nothing else can right the issue, and it simply doesn't do that here.

As to Karma, to try and get us back on the rails, it's honestly fine. It's edges are more rounded than 12, it's profile is low so it's less likely to actually hit anything anyways, and it's mostly going to be used to angle Attack types better where other disks hang too low (e.g. Nexus+S) where the angle should prevent it from hitting anything straight on. No problems have been seen here yet, I'm definitely behind letting it remain.
(Oct. 05, 2021  11:56 PM)MagikHorse Wrote: [ -> ]
(Oct. 05, 2021  4:39 PM)Makinghistory1 Wrote: [ -> ]It’s just fear! Don’t be scared bladed with all your heart but ban drift 🤣

Drift is fine. People still need to grow up and start finding ways to beat things instead of just giving up and calling for a ban. People really do call for bans way too easily these days.


Exactly,

1234 showed how easily you can have Guilty KO a drift combo, maybe Guilty will slightly struggle with Vanish? But Drift is nowhere near an issue as people are making it out to be.
Karma's not a problem either, so... Yeah...

I do sort of tire of all the "let's ban X" threads everywhere too. This one was made in haste in particular, and there's no current reason to consider it.
The video above really does prove that even something as strong as Drift isn't going to be that big of a deal. Everything is gonna have a counter, its just up to you to find the right combo that works. And people are complaining about Metal Drift which people are most likely going to use on Bahamut anyway so it's not like anyone is going to have to worry about Burst resistance predicaments. and i have to agree with Magik, i'm getting tired of seeing the banning threads when there is no real reason to ban it yet
(Oct. 06, 2021  2:39 AM)originalzankye Wrote: [ -> ]
(Oct. 05, 2021  11:56 PM)MagikHorse Wrote: [ -> ]Drift is fine. People still need to grow up and start finding ways to beat things instead of just giving up and calling for a ban. People really do call for bans way too easily these days.


Exactly,

1234 showed how easily you can have Guilty KO a drift combo, maybe Guilty will slightly struggle with Vanish? But Drift is nowhere near an issue as people are making it out to be.
It looks very easy when you already have the bey in the center to aim at, it’s not like that in a real battle. Who knows? Maybe they will launch hard and try to go aggressive, or maybe you self KO before they even make it to the center. You gotta be smart about knowing your opponents launch and even then they could switch it up last second. 
As well, it’s not like everyone can just afford to get guilty or just get every single beyblade release, people (or in my case peoples parents) set limits on the beys they can buy.
(Oct. 06, 2021  2:39 AM)originalzankye Wrote: [ -> ]
(Oct. 05, 2021  11:56 PM)MagikHorse Wrote: [ -> ]Drift is fine. People still need to grow up and start finding ways to beat things instead of just giving up and calling for a ban. People really do call for bans way too easily these days.


Exactly,

1234 showed how easily you can have Guilty KO a drift combo, maybe Guilty will slightly struggle with Vanish? But Drift is nowhere near an issue as people are making it out to be.

The one problem I see with solo testing like this is that you're launching against a stationary target, and can easily position your launch to score consistent KO's. Until these sorts of results start to appear in tournaments, I'm going to remain cautiously skeptical.

Also, is anyone else concerned by how much Guilty is bursting?
(Oct. 06, 2021  3:23 AM)TheRogueBlader Wrote: [ -> ]
(Oct. 06, 2021  2:39 AM)originalzankye Wrote: [ -> ]

Exactly,

1234 showed how easily you can have Guilty KO a drift combo, maybe Guilty will slightly struggle with Vanish? But Drift is nowhere near an issue as people are making it out to be.
It looks very easy when you already have the bey in the center to aim at, it’s not like that in a real battle. Who knows? Maybe they will launch hard and try to go aggressive, or maybe you self KO before they even make it to the center. You gotta be smart about knowing your opponents launch and even then they could switch it up last second. 
As well, it’s not like everyone can just afford to get guilty or just get every single beyblade release, people (or in my case peoples parents) set limits on the beys they can buy.

I don't think including restrictions of "what if they can't do X" is really fair in the slightest. Many people CAN do X, and trying to say absolutely everyone should have the parts to counter everything is just nonsense. Sadly those without the options will struggle more, but let's not use that as an excuse to act like those options don't exist at all.
(Oct. 06, 2021  3:23 AM)TheRogueBlader Wrote: [ -> ]
(Oct. 06, 2021  2:39 AM)originalzankye Wrote: [ -> ]

Exactly,

1234 showed how easily you can have Guilty KO a drift combo, maybe Guilty will slightly struggle with Vanish? But Drift is nowhere near an issue as people are making it out to be.
It looks very easy when you already have the bey in the center to aim at, it’s not like that in a real battle. Who knows? Maybe they will launch hard and try to go aggressive, or maybe you self KO before they even make it to the center. You gotta be smart about knowing your opponents launch and even then they could switch it up last second. 
As well, it’s not like everyone can just afford to get guilty or just get every single beyblade release, people (or in my case peoples parents) set limits on the beys they can buy.

I’m not sure why anyone wouldn’t want Drift in the center, it’s fairly infamous for self-koing otherwise, and an aggressive Drift on the other hand would still be easy prey for a competent attack user. As Zankye and Magikhorse said, don’t make Drift out to be more oppressive than it is. Find strategies to counter it, it’s really not that difficult to beat.
(Oct. 06, 2021  3:44 AM)Ardmore Bladers Wrote: [ -> ]
(Oct. 06, 2021  3:23 AM)TheRogueBlader Wrote: [ -> ]It looks very easy when you already have the bey in the center to aim at, it’s not like that in a real battle. Who knows? Maybe they will launch hard and try to go aggressive, or maybe you self KO before they even make it to the center. You gotta be smart about knowing your opponents launch and even then they could switch it up last second. 
As well, it’s not like everyone can just afford to get guilty or just get every single beyblade release, people (or in my case peoples parents) set limits on the beys they can buy.

I’m not sure why anyone wouldn’t want Drift in the center, it’s fairly infamous for self-koing otherwise, and an aggressive Drift on the other hand would still be easy prey for a competent attack user. As Zankye and Magikhorse said, don’t make Drift out to be more oppressive than it is. Find strategies to counter it, it’s really not that difficult to beat.
An aggressive drift would attack the attack type, slowing it down but weakening the attack type. This makes it less likely to self KO because the attack type is weaker and drift is slowed down enough, but that’s a strategy I should probably test out. I agree, coming up with strategies is a good way to beat it but all the stuff I’m saying about drift is actually what it does, I’m not making it more oppressive. It’s weaknesses: Knocking if off balance, high same spin stamina, opposite spin mirror matches, un-skilled player. I’m well aware of the weaknesses, but let’s not forget about the strengths: opposite spin king, high defense, good same spin, mobility makes it useful on things like rage to KO and equalize at the same time.
(Oct. 06, 2021  3:49 AM)TheRogueBlader Wrote: [ -> ]
(Oct. 06, 2021  3:44 AM)Ardmore Bladers Wrote: [ -> ]I’m not sure why anyone wouldn’t want Drift in the center, it’s fairly infamous for self-koing otherwise, and an aggressive Drift on the other hand would still be easy prey for a competent attack user. As Zankye and Magikhorse said, don’t make Drift out to be more oppressive than it is. Find strategies to counter it, it’s really not that difficult to beat.
An aggressive drift would attack the attack type, slowing it down but weakening the attack type. This makes it less likely to self KO because the attack type is weaker and drift is slowed down enough, but that’s a strategy I should probably test out. I agree, coming up with strategies is a good way to beat it but all the stuff I’m saying about drift is actually what it does, I’m not making it more oppressive. It’s weaknesses: Knocking if off balance, high same spin stamina, opposite spin mirror matches, un-skilled player. I’m well aware of the weaknesses, but let’s not forget about the strengths: opposite spin king, high defense, good same spin, mobility makes it useful on things like rage to KO and equalize at the same time.

if you hate the meta this badly just go to burst classic or burst limited /hj

Just because its strengths are really good doesn't mean you can't use the weaknesses to your advantage
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