(Jul. 27, 2021 11:51 AM)tubitr Wrote: [ -> ] (Jul. 27, 2021 10:11 AM)th!nk Wrote: [ -> ]From me spinning them now though it's not even remotely close (I use wolborg 2 casings, shaft and cgb with defense ring and wide defense).
Huh, aside from the disc and sp that's pretty much the same setup as the one in the vid. Maybe the guy using it didn't hard launch to avoid a self ko.
The rubber parts of this tip could come off if you pulled on it, I've got another wolborg 2 tip where the rubber part doesn't come off (this one kinda looks like its been glued), not sure which one's the proper one.
(Jul. 27, 2021 10:11 AM)th!nk Wrote: [ -> ]What compacts is it outspinning? MCB has solid lad and has little trouble with the match up.
I thought Upper Dragoon with Dragoon S BB beat MBD and MCB in opposite spin, will have to check that again when I visit home.
(Jul. 27, 2021 10:11 AM)th!nk Wrote: [ -> ]I also don't see how any of this makes for a good attack type (which OP requested) anyway - the benchmark is KO on defensive balance and defense...
OP wanted "left spin Attack build with some survivability". Something that can ko stamina (even if ko'ing stamina isn't much of an achievement) and out spin some defensive balance and defense fits the bill imo. (Well, I was under the impression it could out spin some of them but looks like I'm wrong lol)
(Jul. 27, 2021 10:11 AM)th!nk Wrote: [ -> ]UD on Storm Grip is part of why compacts were so dominant previously imo - because it actually isn't a great offense setup and doesn't handle them that well. It's a great Spin Stealing Attack AR but storm grip doesn't have sufficient stamina or LAD for that. It's not horrible by any means but there's so much better available from the dragoon line.
I bought a bunch of parts guy that was a top 10 blader in Turkey around 2003-2004 and he spoke very highly of the upper dragoon combo. (there was no official ranking but people in the turkish forum managed to dig up some old results from web archive)
I don't know much about the competitive scene back then tho.
There's this vid https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZzcoxBsI7Y , so it looks like our tournament stadiums didn't have a tornado ridge. No tornado ridge + people being young/ might be a reason why Dragoon S's BB was prefered, hard to self KO with it .
The vid shows non-dragon winders which is probably the actual root cause of that if anything (I can go into the science some time but I'm in the middle of doing some important stuff atm), bearing and tip condition (and width variance for catching in the base) matter, but at the very least it tells you it can't be relied on in that match up.
My worn MBD loaded with 6 balls has no trouble - maybe a mint one would struggle a touch more with the sharper tip. Storm Grip has variances in rubber hardness, but even then MCB has good LAD in general (though the sonokong one is a bit worse due to the tip being different), I really don't see storm grip outspinning at all. That's even loading my Compact down with my heaviest 10h AND a Metal Bit Chip to minimise survival.
Eh that summary is true, but in that case Gaia Dragoon V's Base is an easy recommendation and just as much as Dragoon as Master/Kids Dragoon, and then you can whack an actual Dragoon AR on top, or even Upper Dragoon, and get generally better results. Survivability is relative though. G Upper on CGB has "passable" survivability - and perhaps explaining how much you trade off to get some stamina is important. Storm Grip really doesn't have good survivability as it has no precession ability due to being so short.
If they want survivability you came real close when you mentioned an SSA combo... But then you suggested Eight Spiker on it which... Not a great idea - Upper Dragoon would be great there though, and an Upper Dragoon Spin Stealing Attack combo might be the best answer for the question, even if it isn't very dragoon-y.
Also, UD/10W/SGB doesn't even reliably KO BK Shaft Zombies - at least I don't get reliable KOs on my CGB/Defense Ring/BK Shaft zombie even with Wide Survivor, let alone once I put Wide Defense on it. Sometimes maybe, but generally it bounces off that smooth, smooth underside and the zombie just rolls away from it a little. Chance matters there too as BK Shaft isn't a sitting duck. Not a match up I'd like to be using UD in, anyhow.
A lot of people back then did feel strongly about it being good - and even recommended loading Storm Grip down even more with Ten Heavy and an HMC and using Right Spin - this was one of the most recommended combos when I got back into plastics!
Since then it's been pretty thoroughly debunked as the meta has evolved and stronger setups have been found, and those styles of combos don't even make the competitive combos list any more. Plastics Remembrance when it was run had a lot of Circle Survivor combos which eat most things alive, the most practical setup now is probably G Upper on CGB tbh, as it has a shot vs CS sometimes.
Yes, lacking a tornado ridge is part of why Storm Grip was popular, correct, and in fact, G Special Base of all things was popular for similar reasons. This is definitely part of the rep but it's also not really that relevant now.
Upper Dragoon is better on SG Metal Flat Base (Gaia Dragoon Version) and perhaps even Metal Change Base if you're going left spin compared to Storm Grip, fwiw. Again, combo is like... It's fine. It'll smash lighter stock or slightly customised stuff, possibly even a stock Driger S, but it's gonna get curb stomped by CS and Driger V2 combos.