[Product]  B-00 Booster Grand Valkyrie.Z.H′ 天 Giants Ver.

I haven't seen any on ebay yet. would zenmarket be a good place to try and get one?
(Apr. 27, 2019  5:38 PM)Kry Wrote: I haven't seen any on ebay yet. would zenmarket be a good place to try and get one?

LeoBurst himself is selling them
(Apr. 28, 2019  2:33 PM)Hussainthetank Wrote: is hold'/hold competitive?

It would have to be tested again because of both the dash variant, and the amount of new parts since it's been relevant
(Apr. 17, 2019  4:30 AM)KingSpin Wrote: It does have pretty good precession, which is why people are talking about LAD. Its LAD (more of precession) is comparable, or even better than Destroy's depending on the combo used.

What combo in the current meta would hold do well in, generally speaking?
(Apr. 29, 2019  6:04 PM)Biggster Wrote: What combo in the current meta would hold do well in, generally speaking?

Hard to say, since as Burstmaster said above Hold hasn't been used in a long time. It'd have a pretty hard time fitting in, I'd think, especially since Hold was only ever good on Lost Longinus back in its day. Even then it only really worked because Lost Longinus had no left spin opposition besides itself and was capable of stealing a bit of spin with its shape, making good use out of both the Attack and LAD of Hold well. I don't really see anything now that could use it the same way besides possibly Wizard Fafnir as a more mobile Stamina combo.
(Apr. 30, 2019  12:29 AM)MagikHorse Wrote:
(Apr. 29, 2019  6:04 PM)Biggster Wrote: What combo in the current meta would hold do well in, generally speaking?

Hard to say, since as Burstmaster said above Hold hasn't been used in a long time. It'd have a pretty hard time fitting in, I'd think, especially since Hold was only ever good on Lost Longinus back in its day. Even then it only really worked because Lost Longinus had no left spin opposition besides itself and was capable of stealing a bit of spin with its shape, making good use out of both the Attack and LAD of Hold well. I don't really see anything now that could use it the same way besides possibly Wizard Fafnir as a more mobile Stamina combo.

I've been able to get some use out of hold on drain, especially against Revive Phoenix 10B Attomic, and Arc Bahamut, and since Wizard and Dragin are so similar it coudl be possible for wizard to kind of take n these properties, only issues I can see right now would be right spin Bearing combos, and left spin attack types.
(Apr. 30, 2019  4:33 AM)BurstMaster Wrote: I've been able to get some use out of hold on drain, especially against Revive Phoenix 10B Attomic, and Arc Bahamut, and since Wizard and Dragin are so similar it coudl be possible for wizard to kind of take n these properties, only issues I can see right now would be right spin Bearing combos, and left spin attack types.

Really left spin anything will probably deal with it well, unless Wizard has more KO potential than it looks like it has. I know Hold doesn't have particularly good Stamina so it's not gonna outspin much of anything in same spin, while more aggressive combos can probably dispatch of it easily enough by grabbing onto its rubber.
(Apr. 30, 2019  6:01 AM)MagikHorse Wrote:
(Apr. 30, 2019  4:33 AM)BurstMaster Wrote: I've been able to get some use out of hold on drain, especially against Revive Phoenix 10B Attomic, and Arc Bahamut, and since Wizard and Dragin are so similar it coudl be possible for wizard to kind of take n these properties, only issues I can see right now would be right spin Bearing combos, and left spin attack types.

Really left spin anything will probably deal with it well, unless Wizard has more KO potential than it looks like it has. I know Hold doesn't have particularly good Stamina so it's not gonna outspin much of anything in same spin, while more aggressive combos can probably dispatch of it easily enough by grabbing onto its rubber.
Well won’t the dash spring solve that problem ?
Wait a second. The problem of left spin attack countering wizard fafnir hardly sounds like a problem because there is no left spin attack being used, or else, why would hell salamnder be such a strong layer that is pretty much guaranteed to be used by at least one of the top 3 of any tournament (except for classic format ofc). Besides, hold does have some tornado staller properties although slightly inconsistent because it sometimes hits the wall and goes in towards the center of the stadium. So that leaves us with right spin bearing combos to be countered with..... as for that, I have no idea. But every combo has its own counter. Maybe we could launch super hard and have the bearing combo scrape on its wall frame and eventually scrape to death? Wall hold' hopefully won't have the same amount of scrape issues as wall bearing.
(Apr. 29, 2019  6:04 PM)Biggster Wrote: What combo in the current meta would hold do well in, generally speaking?

Hold gets its LAD from precession - it’s incredibly resistant to toppling due to its wide base. You’d want to use a combo with a low center of gravity to exploit this. Wall frame helps to do this very well.

Any combo with 0Wall, Hold would do well. To exploit spin direction, you could use ChoS, Spriggan Requiem, or Legend Spriggan, depending if spin direction mode change is allowed or not (it’s legal for WBBA, not for WBO sans lS, I think)

Otherwise, you could use aH or hS, depending on the opponent’s bey. You’ll want to go opposite spin.
(Apr. 30, 2019  7:05 AM)Zeutron Wrote: Well won’t the dash spring solve that problem ?

The dash spring doesn't stop potential KOs, and grabbing onto the rubber would only kill off Wizard's stamina on a driver which itself already has terrible Stamina. Don't think it's enough to hold it at bay.

(Apr. 30, 2019  7:26 AM)Ash_Ketchum_007 Wrote: Wait a second. The problem of left spin attack countering wizard fafnir hardly sounds like a problem because there is no left spin attack being used, or else, why would hell salamnder be such a strong layer that is pretty much guaranteed to be used by at least one of the top 3 of any tournament (except for classic format ofc). Besides, hold does have some tornado staller properties although slightly inconsistent because it sometimes hits the wall and goes in towards the center of the stadium. So that leaves us with right spin bearing combos to be countered with..... as for that, I have no idea. But every combo has its own counter. Maybe we could launch super hard and have the bearing combo scrape on its wall frame and eventually scrape to death? Wall hold' hopefully won't have the same amount of scrape issues as wall bearing.

Left spin Defense and Stamina would do just as well against it, maybe even better as they have more time to slow Wizard down by its own rubber. I've already gone on the record saying that I think Hell Salamander will thrash Wizard for a similar reason, and Hold' doesn't really change that any unless Wizard can score KOs on it.
(Apr. 30, 2019  9:46 PM)MagikHorse Wrote: Left spin Defense and Stamina would do just as well against it, maybe even better as they have more time to slow Wizard down by its own rubber. I've already gone on the record saying that I think Hell Salamander will thrash Wizard for a similar reason, and Hold' doesn't really change that any unless Wizard can score KOs on it.

Why can't wizard burst hell salamander? The usual hell salamander combos have atomic or bearing as their drivers. Both have weak springs (atomic's spring is not as strong as orbit or revolve, is it?). Wizard's rubber slowing itself down is a problem. But, does it not also slow down other combos and also become a good grip attack layer when countering hell salamander? Maybe it can burst hell salamander atomic combos.
(May. 01, 2019  8:14 AM)Ash_Ketchum_007 Wrote:
(Apr. 30, 2019  9:46 PM)MagikHorse Wrote: Left spin Defense and Stamina would do just as well against it, maybe even better as they have more time to slow Wizard down by its own rubber. I've already gone on the record saying that I think Hell Salamander will thrash Wizard for a similar reason, and Hold' doesn't really change that any unless Wizard can score KOs on it.

Why can't wizard burst hell salamander? The usual hell salamander combos have atomic or bearing as their drivers. Both have weak springs (atomic's spring is not as strong as orbit or revolve, is it?). Wizard's rubber slowing itself down is a problem. But, does it not also slow down other combos and also become a good grip attack layer when countering hell salamander? Maybe it can burst hell salamander atomic combos.

It can, but quite inconsistently, especially if hS is on Defense mode. WzFf has too much hype, yet it can't hold a candle to its previous meta Fafnir combos, to the point that Dash Drivers won't do much either (except Zephyr or possibly Destroy).
(May. 01, 2019  8:14 AM)Ash_Ketchum_007 Wrote: Why can't wizard burst hell salamander? The usual hell salamander combos have atomic or bearing as their drivers. Both have weak springs (atomic's spring is not as strong as orbit or revolve, is it?). Wizard's rubber slowing itself down is a problem. But, does it not also slow down other combos and also become a good grip attack layer when countering hell salamander? Maybe it can burst hell salamander atomic combos.

Atomic's spring is only slightly weaker, but it's not the most significant reduction here given Hell Salamander's good defensive shape and strong teeth. Bearings spring is really, really weak, so it might stand a chance against Bearing, but even if they both get slowed down the same I think Hold just has too little Stamina to compensate for the rubber's effect against drivers other than Bearing.
(May. 02, 2019  3:43 AM)MagikHorse Wrote:
(May. 01, 2019  8:14 AM)Ash_Ketchum_007 Wrote: Why can't wizard burst hell salamander? The usual hell salamander combos have atomic or bearing as their drivers. Both have weak springs (atomic's spring is not as strong as orbit or revolve, is it?). Wizard's rubber slowing itself down is a problem. But, does it not also slow down other combos and also become a good grip attack layer when countering hell salamander? Maybe it can burst hell salamander atomic combos.

Atomic's spring is only slightly weaker, but it's not the most significant reduction here given Hell Salamander's good defensive shape and strong teeth. Bearings spring is really, really weak, so it might stand a chance against Bearing, but even if they both get slowed down the same I think Hold just has too little Stamina to compensate for the rubber on other drivers.

Add to that the unreliable attacking pattern of Hold and slow mobility (unless they make the mold something like Volcanic' where it acted like a Quest Driver on steroids as long as it is not hit yet). 

Even through simple play tests with WzFf, I feel that even on a Hold' (whereas I'm just using a normal Hold), it won't really make a difference (aside from possibly breaking the teeth of the GT Chip due to added tightness) when fighting same spin unless it had a more recoil-heavy shape+durable teeth like Geist did, as the stamina really sucks on Hold with the existence of Destroy and other free-spinning Drivers.
I get what you two are saying. Wizard is no cho z achilles or slash valkyrie or even geist fafnir in terms of attack power. But every combo has it's own counters. If you were worried too much about facing hS atomic when you are using hS bearing, you wouldn't have used it. Besides, is hold slow? Maybe you said that comparing it to volcanic' or extreme' or quick'. You are right but I think hold's speed is more than enough for some recoil-y layer to burst same spin defense layers IF only you managed to pull off a superb flower pattern. But, the inconsistent rush shoot tendency of hold is a huge problem.

But, hell salamander has somewhat reduced in usage since none of the hS combos can beat the pP xt+ combos. So, if (I'm just making a guess, don't roast me) wizard has a better chance than than hS to bring off the layer (thereby reducing the LAD), it could be a decent combo, right? Can anyone test it out? Also, I don't think wizard will have to use 1' (which is lighter than 0/00) and therefore it may have better LAD.
(May. 11, 2019  10:20 PM)Ntruder19 Wrote: I always wanted there to be a hold’.

there already is lol
(May. 12, 2019  5:52 PM)Hussainthetank Wrote:
(May. 11, 2019  10:20 PM)Ntruder19 Wrote: I always wanted there to be a hold’.

there already is lol

Only as of this release. He's saying he wanted it before this, and now seems glad that it's come to pass.
I wonder though how free-spinning and wobbly the flat tip of this Hold' is, compared to the icy-blue Hold from a previous RBV (which was quite free-spinning and wobbly) as well as the original purple Hold (which was a bit too rigid compared to RBV version)
my hold used to be aggressive, i don't know if this has been discussed yet, but the increased weight of the later releases in burst have rendered hold a stationary tip. that and the fact that any version of hold that spins more freely than the purple one might have more stamina and its insane LAD potential might make it feasible again. especially since now it is essentially a stamina type dash driver
(May. 13, 2019  11:19 AM)Garvin prime Wrote: my hold used to be aggressive, i don't know if this has been discussed yet, but the increased weight of the later releases in burst have rendered hold a stationary tip. that and the fact that any version of hold that spins more freely than the purple one might have more stamina and its insane LAD potential might make it feasible again. especially since now it is essentially a stamina type dash driver

The tip is flat. How does that give good stamina? And the plate to which it is connected is wide and will accelerate a lot if it ends up scraping which isn't unusual. And it isn't really a stamina type dash driver....... that is exaggeration.
(May. 14, 2019  10:05 AM)Ash_Ketchum_007 Wrote: The tip is flat. How does that give good stamina? And the plate to which it is connected is wide and will accelerate a lot if it ends up scraping which isn't unusual. And it isn't really a stamina type dash driver....... that is exaggeration.

Just stating something that I observed with my hold. Rise is a stamina type part yet it only offers LAD. Against same spin it consistently loses. That's the same with hold with these heavier layer disc combos. And no it does not accelerate. My hold is completely stationary on anything above the legend spriggan 7 wall combos. But yeah me saying that it is a stamina driver is slightly exaggerated but it does offer insane LAD when it doesn't wobble and is smooth. I have beaten atomic with my hold. Though it was skewed to favour atomic by 60:40 or somewhere in that range.