World Beyblade Organization by Fighting Spirits Inc. Beyblade Discussion Beyblade Customizations

Why Coated Sharp Needs to Stay.

Poll: Is CS still a viable part?

Yes
97.22%
35
No
2.78%
1
Total: 100% 36 vote(s)
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Jul. 27, 2014  9:25 PM
 
Since it's release, Coated Sharp (CS) had been the go-to defensive tip. With the release of Ray Gil, RSF was introduced into the game. Between the two tips, their performance varies indefinitely. RSF being aggressive, CS being calm (in most of all cases). The next two defensive tips that were released were Rubber Ball (RB) on August 6th 2011, and Rubber Defense Flat (RDF) on October 23rd 2011.

A quick synopsis of these tips to describe performance and uses:

CS: http://wiki.worldbeyblade.org/index.php/...D125CS.jpg

Calm, takes hits, rubber tends to prevent from KO.

RSF: http://wiki.worldbeyblade.org/index.php/File:Rsf2.jpg

Aggressive, small flower patterns if not worn. Can take and dish-out the KOs.

RS: http://wiki.worldbeyblade.org/index.php/...dKetos.JPG

Calm, in the aspect of pure defense, best in the game. Poor balance, high defense.

RB: http://wiki.worldbeyblade.org/index.php/File:Jade16.jpg

Can be aggresive, and calm (depending on wear and debris buildup). In terms of defense, it is risky depending on the combo it may be facing. When near the tornado ridge, relatively easier (compared to other tips) to push out.

RDF: http://wiki.worldbeyblade.org/index.php/...F-Side.jpg

Good defense, can be aggressive with the correct launch, spin-equalizing capabilities.


My point being: CS has capabilities that other defensive tips do not. It can go into a stall and ride the tornado ridge for a longer period of time, rather than one or two bouts around the stadium. While going against an attack type, it is crucial to disturb which ever pattern your opponent is using so there may be a better chance to OS the attacking bey.

Questions, comments, discussion, go ahead.

And don't assume anything if an argument breaks out in the comments, keep it civilized.
Jul. 27, 2014  9:34 PM
 
I like CS. I can see it being taken from BD145 defence, but I say atleast keep it with E230.
Jul. 27, 2014  9:50 PM
 
Explain your reasoning? Just wanna know why you think that Smile
Jul. 27, 2014  10:22 PM
 
In a rush, but I completely agree with this. I'll add more later, but with the fantastic stamina CS has and its other unique traits, it does not need to be removed.
Jul. 27, 2014  10:31 PM
 
Yeah I typed this up quick too, I'd been really thinking and working on this topic for something as short as this hah.
It's a valuable tip.
Jul. 27, 2014  10:38 PM
 
CS is still a useful part and it's performance differs from other Defensive tips, as does RDF, RS, RSF, and RB. They all perform differently. I'm sure CS would some in a handy against soemthing like MF-H Flash Orion W145MF.

Oh yeah, and it's Coat Sharp, not Coated Sharp. Wink

Edit: 3000th post!
Jul. 27, 2014  10:54 PM
 
(Jul. 27, 2014  9:34 PM)DRANZER KING Wrote: I like CS. I can see it being taken from BD145 defence, but I say atleast keep it with E230.

What you said, hah..

Anyways, just quoted this from TBD's Defense Reformation thread, as I found the ''Remove CS from all Defense customs'' section of that thread to be quite similar to yours, Doc. I edited a little of the original post I made, as well.

Mɪᴅɴɪɢʜᴛ for removing CS Wrote:I'd remove it to some extent, as CS is quite a valuable tip for defense setups, at least from my experience. I myself like the idea of E230 on CS, however, I'd prefer tips consisting of either RB or RDF on BD145 customs.

And of course, as Echizen said, it would come in handy against variations like MF-H Flash Orion W145MF.
Jul. 27, 2014  11:35 PM
 
(Jul. 27, 2014  9:50 PM)DrPepsidew Wrote: Explain your reasoning? Just wanna know why you think that Smile

By request by sir Pepsi:

With BD145 it's metal on metal against attack unless the opponent is using 85 or something, but E230 has metal on plastic contact and the disk of E230 is completely round and has little recoil if any at all. BD145 needs a lot of grip to the stadium floor to stand against modern attackers and I don't think CS can handle it as good as with E230. Plus E230CS destabilizers are boss haha.



Yeah that's it.
Jul. 27, 2014  11:40 PM
 
It depends on spin direction for which tip I have on BD145 and what I'm going for with the combo.

CS works wonders on E230, still has the destablizer (brain dead, don't judge) factor although not as well as TBD or my E230 MB variants. Could possibly take hits better.

@DK, thanks for the input! I'd like to see more opinions on this, it really helps to get a feel of what others think. But do you believe BD145 CS serves any other purpose besides a traditional defense custom?
Jul. 27, 2014  11:45 PM
 
I was talking about in right spin, most people use RDF for left spin BD145 defenders/Force smashers/balance combos.
Jul. 27, 2014  11:53 PM
 
I think the only reasoning I have seen CS should go is "it can't handle today's attackers" without testing to back up that statement, so it really deserves a spot still. It works well on most heights of defenders, unlike RB and RSF which really need specific heights to show the best pitential. Even RDF falls in with the latter as well since it is really only used with BD145. CS can easily be launched aggressively just like RSF and RDF. It can be launched calmly as well, even easier than RDF and RSF which can help. It is basically a combination of RSF anf RS with the added stamina synchrome defenders desperately need.
Jul. 28, 2014  12:06 AM
 
Not going to go into a ton of detail at the moment because I just got back from a 4 day long trip and I'm lazy, but I would like to say that I am in support of removing CS from the top tier list. I've owned this tip for 2 years now and have never found it to be one of the best in the line of defense. Too much plastic and not enough rubber causes CS to be fairly easy to KO, from my experience; I can't see why anyone would choose it over RDF, RS, or even RSF for a strictly defense combination.

Just felt like this thread should have both sides represented haha
Jul. 28, 2014  12:07 AM
 
That's pretty much what I'm saying. CS has a variety of things, just options open up in a battle when you have CS equipped.

@TSO, I welcome your viewpoint, may I ask which combos you used it on, and the results to accompany them (if any)?
Jul. 28, 2014  12:12 AM
 
(Jul. 27, 2014  11:40 PM)DrPepsidew Wrote: It depends on spin direction for which tip I have on BD145 and what I'm going for with the combo.

CS works wonders on E230, still has the destablizer (brain dead, don't judge) factor although not as well as TBD or my E230 MB variants. Could possibly take hits better.

@DK, thanks for the input! I'd like to see more opinions on this, it really helps to get a feel of what others think. But do you believe BD145 CS serves any other purpose besides a traditional defense custom?

@EDIT

Sure you can go with a hybrid like Genbull Genbull, but weren't we talking about traditional defence? TBD's article is proposing moving it from only defence if I read it correctly.



Tri:

I found tests by Ingulit and TBD. Maybe try lookin for tests before claiming they don't exist?


MF-H Flash Beelzeb GB145R2F vs. MSF Reviser Reviser BD145RDF
Reviser always launched first.
Detail Results (Click to View)
Flash: 12 (0 OS, 12 KO)
Reviser: 18 (10 OS, 8 KO)
Flash Win %: 40.0%


MF-H Flash Orion GB145R2F vs. Reviser Reviser BD145CS
Reviser launched first on all launches. Calm CS, prime R2F.
Orion: wins, 14/20 (All KO)
Reviser: wins, 6/20 (All OS)
MF-H Flash Orion GB145R2F win rate: 70%

MF-H Flash Orion GB145RF vs. Reviser Reviser BD145CS
Reviser launched first on all launches. Calm CS, prime R2F.
Orion: wins, 16/20 (All KO)
Reviser: wins, 4/20 (All OS)
MF-H Flash Orion GB145RF win rate: 80%



Just minor combo differences.
Jul. 28, 2014  12:15 AM
 
(Jul. 28, 2014  12:07 AM)DrPepsidew Wrote: That's pretty much what I'm saying. CS has a variety of things, just options open up in a battle when you have CS equipped.

@TSO, I welcome your viewpoint, may I ask which combos you used it on, and the results to accompany them (if any)?
I have never done tests with CS because I don't feel that it's worth my time (I use RSF and RDF in my defense tests instead), but if it's necessary, I can do a few at some point. Someone else should test as well though, specifically for this thread, because as of right now there aren't any results to prove why it should stay top tier.

I've used it for fun with a few different defense combos and on Basalt Bull 230 CS at Leone19 & my tournament in December (it was a pre-4D format) and in terms of defense, it didn't do too well. Again, the plastic makes it better for stamina than defense.
Jul. 28, 2014  12:20 AM
 
@DK
Is Flash really today's attacker? No.
Is Revizer^2 good compared to other options? Probably not.
This is not the thread for traditional defense.

Do not forget synergy guys. If BD145 does not work well with Revizer^2, that does not mean it will not work well with something else. I wouldn't put Orojya^2 on top of E230 MB hah

@TSO, I'll start now. Comparing with RDF, RB, and CS. (I do not have RSF)
Jul. 28, 2014  12:23 AM
 
Hey dranzer king guess what? Two sets of test don't say anything at all (especially since Wyvang is the go-to now) Grin! Maybe try harder next time you try to make yourself look good and me an idiot? I'm actually doing MANY tests at the moment that will help the topic. Will have them up later, I am almost done.
Jul. 28, 2014  12:26 AM
 
Flash works fine for attack, maybe not as good as Wybang, Balro or Bahamdia but it still works well.


If flash can get 80 percent against a CS defender chances are that the others can too.


Reviser Reviser is one of the best defence options out there.... And it's known to work well with BD145/E230 defenders.


(Jul. 28, 2014  12:23 AM)Tʀɪ Wrote: Hey dranzer king guess what? Two sets of test don't say anything at all (especially since Wyvang is the go-to now) Grin! Maybe try harder next time you try to make yourself look good and me an idiot? I'm actually doing MANY tests at the moment that will help the topic. Will have them up later, I am almost done.

I wasn't really trying too, but um, whatever you say, haha Tongue_out.
Jul. 28, 2014  12:27 AM
 
(Jul. 28, 2014  12:23 AM)Tʀɪ Wrote: Hey dranzer king guess what? Two sets of test don't say anything at all (especially since Wyvang is the go-to now) Grin! Maybe try harder next time you try to make yourself look good and me an idiot? I'm actually doing MANY tests at the moment that will help the topic. Will have them up later, I am almost done.
C'mon guys, chill out. Cool

Soda Guy, is there anything specific you want me to test?
Jul. 28, 2014  12:39 AM
 
@DK According to the tier list, sure. Have you noticed the lack of people who use that combo for defense? Me too. I use defense in probably more than half of my matches, I can assure you, R^2 is not among the best. Also, aren't almost all defense customs known to work well with BD145 and E230?

But please chill out guys, thanks Echizen but you can test whatever you'd like hah. And for my tests, I will be using Wyvang. Then I will test with Flash. Against MF-H Duo Aquario BD145 CS/RDF. Flash will most likely perform better here, but that's not the point. The differences are in the tips.

The win percentage will be of Duo.
Wyvang^2 SA165 (Attack) RF vs MF-H Duo Aquario BD145 CS
Win: 80% (14 OS, 2 KO) Wyvang all KO

MF-H Flash Cetus GB145 R2F vs MF-H Duo Aquario BD145 CS
Win: 85% (15 OS, 2 KO) Flash all KO
------------------------------------------------

Wyvang^2 SA165 (Attack) RF vs MF-H Duo Aquario BD145 RDF
Win: 80% (16 OS) Wyvang (2 OS, 2 KO)

MF-H Flash Cetus GB145 R2F vs MF-H Duo Aquario BD145 RDF
Win: 75% (13 OS, 2 KO) Flash (2 OS, 3 KO)

This brings up the topic of synergy, or just things being better against certain things. Flash may be better at taking on Duo in general whilst on a specific setup. I may explain synergy later on.
Jul. 28, 2014  1:20 AM
 
IMO Revizer is one of the best for raw Defense because it's almost completely smooth, but it's like RS, its Stamina sucks. Genbull and Zirago are probably better. Killerken maybe, but it seems a little too light and recoily to be as solid of an option. My argument for how CS is one of the best for Defense is basically this picture:
Quote:Its shape allows it to catch the Tornado Ridge easily, and then it becomes aggressive, circles back around, and hits the Attack type while it's still recovering from the first hit. Here's a picture if you can't tell what I'm saying with my words:
excuse the bad editing (Click to View)
Basically if the counterattack doesn't KO the Attack type, it will kill its momentum and make an OS so much easier.

DrPepsidew: Why do you say Flash will do better? Wyvang Wyvang is literally the best Attack Wheel in the game now. Flash can still do decently against Synchroms, and that's why it's still top tier, but Wyvang is better.
Jul. 28, 2014  1:28 AM
 
Wombat: THANK YOU SO MUCH! I've been trying to find that picture XD
But I said Flash would probably do better because Wyvang isn't as good against Duo as Flash is.

And I know Wyvang is better XD Wyvang is legit my favorite attack wheel that's ever been released. Check my thread on it hah. But just because I say something may do better, that does not mean I'm saying it is better, no assumptions.
Jul. 28, 2014  1:57 AM
 
(Jul. 28, 2014  12:20 AM)DrPepsidew Wrote: @DK
Is Flash really today's attacker? No.
Is Revizer^2 good compared to other options? Probably not.
This is not the thread for traditional defense.

Do not forget synergy guys. If BD145 does not work well with Revizer^2, that does not mean it will not work well with something else. I wouldn't put Orojya^2 on top of E230 MB hah

@TSO, I'll start now. Comparing with RDF, RB, and CS. (I do not have RSF)

I just noticed the edit.

TBD's proposal was for the removal of CS from the defence section.


Also, about you saying reviser wasn't one of the best for defence and that nobody uses it much:

I haven't seen people using much right spin defence in standard (or atleast not winning with it ) lately, period. Its always some Dragooon SA165/BD145RDF combo.
Jul. 28, 2014  1:57 AM
 
(Jul. 28, 2014  12:12 AM)DRANZER KING Wrote:
(Jul. 27, 2014  11:40 PM)DrPepsidew Wrote: It depends on spin direction for which tip I have on BD145 and what I'm going for with the combo.

CS works wonders on E230, still has the destablizer (brain dead, don't judge) factor although not as well as TBD or my E230 MB variants. Could possibly take hits better.

@DK, thanks for the input! I'd like to see more opinions on this, it really helps to get a feel of what others think. But do you believe BD145 CS serves any other purpose besides a traditional defense custom?

@EDIT

Sure you can go with a hybrid like Genbull Genbull, but weren't we talking about traditional defence? TBD's article is proposing moving it from only defence if I read it correctly.



Tri:

I found tests by Ingulit and TBD. Maybe try lookin for tests before claiming they don't exist?


MF-H Flash Beelzeb GB145R2F vs. MSF Reviser Reviser BD145RDF
Reviser always launched first.
Detail Results (Click to View)
Flash: 12 (0 OS, 12 KO)
Reviser: 18 (10 OS, 8 KO)
Flash Win %: 40.0%


MF-H Flash Orion GB145R2F vs. Reviser Reviser BD145CS
Reviser launched first on all launches. Calm CS, prime R2F.
Orion: wins, 14/20 (All KO)
Reviser: wins, 6/20 (All OS)
MF-H Flash Orion GB145R2F win rate: 70%

MF-H Flash Orion GB145RF vs. Reviser Reviser BD145CS
Reviser launched first on all launches. Calm CS, prime R2F.
Orion: wins, 16/20 (All KO)
Reviser: wins, 4/20 (All OS)
MF-H Flash Orion GB145RF win rate: 80%



Just minor combo differences.

I have a test for you, fresh off the BB-10. Revizer is definitely not among the best.

MF-H Flash Orion GB145 RF vs MSF-H Girago^2 BD145 CS
Win: 75% (9 OS, 6 KO) Flash (All KO)

EDIT: Excuse the double post por favor!

@DK Just today:

(Jul. 28, 2014  1:55 AM)UltimateOrion Wrote: [Bellmore, NY, USA] 7/27/14-Out To The Ocean(Standard Format)
  1. 1st:UltimateOrion Killerken Dragoon BGrin, MSF-L Girago Dragoon 85EWD, MF-H Phantom Aquario E230TB, MSF-H Girago Girago BD145RDF/RF
    2nd: Ocean-Duo Cancer W105EWD, Girago Dragooon W105EWD, Girago Dragooon SA165 (ZGA) EWD, MF-L Duo Cancer BGrin
    3rd: Ethan H- MF-H Duo Cancer BGrin,Girago Girago 100MF,Genbull Dragoon 90EWD(I think thats all)
Jul. 28, 2014  2:04 AM
 
Dude, that was posted either after I posted or when I was posting it XD LOLOLOLOLOLOL.


Look back in the recent pages of the winning combos thread, not much traditional right spin defence.
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