~~~ MSF-H Wyvang Wyvang BD145RDF ~~~
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Howdy guys. Haven't posted one of these since... like, all the way back in March. That's... that's 4 months! Has it really been that long?

Wow. Well, here it goes!

The Concept:

Spoiler (Click to View)

Balance. This combination is what I'd call an improvement on MSF-H Wyvang Wyvang BD145RSF. Super Heavy, tank-ish weapon, used to KO anything that isn't on a hardcore Defense setup, greet Attack types with a collision so chaotic they don't have a chance to fight back, and out-bulk and out-bash opposing Defense types into submission.

I got butterflies in my stomach writing that paragraph. This is my dream combo.

Now, there's a weird story behind this. I actually first tested this combination back in July of 2013 when I was writing the Wyvang Wyvang BD145RSF thread. For some reason, I just couldn't get any aggression out of it. I couldn't get it to KO Duo Stamina customs more consistently than, like, 40% (give or take a few - this was a year ago), but it always stuck in the back of my mind, because every time I played/did testing with the RSF variant, I thought "Wow, that really should have worked better than RSF. I wonder why that was..."

Well, I finally decided to just re-test it and get that lingering voice out of my brain, and... well, as non-thorough as I was back then, I'm positive I must've been using an unevenly-worn RDF, or forgetting to clean it between rounds or something (which is important - RDF builds up residue fast, and it's aggression really declines if you don't clean it every round), because when I tried it this second time, it was actually being more aggressive than my RSF, and producing a far higher KO rate; up to 70% against a top-tier Defense custom!

Anywho, I found that, as long as your RDF is wearing evenly and it's still flat on the bottom, and you remember to clean it well between rounds, you can pretty easily get more aggression out of it than you could out of RSF.

This comes with an added benefit. If we can get enough aggression out of it by using a clean, flat Rubber Defense Flat Bottom, we can also get added recoil reduction, and vastly superior performance against opposite-spin opponents, two of the original custom's most exploitable weaknesses. BD145RDF is one of the most Precession - loaded setups in the game, and by using it, we can easily OS many different Dragooon customs that MSF-H Wyvang Wyvang BD145RSF can't. Along with this, RDF's traction and Defensive ability helps a lot with Wyvang's recoil, and allows for safer KOs against Stamina/Defense customs, and higher overall win rates against Attack types.

One disadvantage this Bottom has relative to RSF, is Stamina. It just isn't able to out-spin the things RSF is able to out-spin; right?

Wrong! Wyvang is an extremely aggressive Wheel, and whenever it collides with another Beyblade, the opposing forces working against each other are huge, which causes quick, severe bursts of spin loss for both Beyblades. When out-spins are being caused by chaotic collisions, more stable Bottoms tend to resist significant spin loss more effectively, even if their pure endurance isn't top-notch. RDF is far more stable than RSF, and because any spin loss this custom suffers or inflicts is so chaotic, RDF's stability makes up almost entirely for its low endurance.

By using such a bulky setup (relatively low center of gravity, only 1.4 grams lighter than the heaviest buildable Beyblade combination and 3-4 grams heavier than the heaviest Defense custom on the tier list), and topping it off with the ever-solid RDF, Wyvang's aggression will actually allow this custom to out-bulk other BD145 Defense customs and bash them into an OS pretty reliably.*

It really does seem like Wyvang and RDF were made for each other. This custom beats so many different things, it's honestly pretty tough to win against, even when you know it's coming. It's just such a hulking, explosive, sort of tank-ish mass, making contact without losing is difficult. I'd confidently call this one of the most versatile Standard Format combinations I've ever seen (one of the easiest to use, too).

And to think I just skipped right over it because I was using the wrong RDF. :\

Let this be a lesson to you, guys. If you get terrible results with a combination that seems logically like it should be working really well, always check each individual part and go back and test it again later. You might miss something awesome.

Parts Choice:

Spoiler (Click to View)

MSF-H: Bulk. This custom focuses on taking Wyvang's aggression and utilizing it in the safest manner by employing mass. Heavy weight is a crucial element of this custom, and with a lot of the competition using MSF-H, it's something we can't afford to lose.

Wyvang: The most aggressive, bulky Wheel in the entire Beyblade series. At a massive 65+ grams, Wyvang Synchromed out-weighs many competitive Beyblade customs by itself, and the smash it produces is more lethal than any other Wheel. It's the Beyblade equivalent of a sledgehammer.

BD145: Heaviest, bulkiest Track in the game, perfect height for this custom's purpose. Remember, heavier = better.

RDF: High traction, and low recoil. Doesn't exactly add to the bulk of the custom, but it puts a stable, rock-solid rubber foundation behind it. Plenty of aggression to KO virtually anything you need to KO, and great synergy with BD145 against opposite-spin opponents.

The Launch:

Spoiler (Click to View)

Just. launch. hard.

Against everything. Even Attack types. with how this custom is designed, the goal against Attack combinations isn't really to withstand a collision. It's to let your opponent come at you, and inflict as much damage as possible on contact, to either KO, or send the thing flying back so hard it doesn't have the momentum or spin velocity to make another pass. I really like this old quote of Hazel's:

Counter-Smash (and thereby the ability to KO) is a valid trait of any Defense setup.

Anyone who thinks Defense means "outspinning attackers only" is not familiar with Defense post-Earth.

Against Defense/Stamina, obviously bank at maximum strength to go for the KO, or batter your opponent to death if you don't get a clear shot.

Testing:

Spoiler (Click to View)

Benchmark:

Spoiler (Click to View)

MSF-H Revizer Revizer BD145RDF vs. MSF-H Balro Balro W145R2F
RDF slightly rounded; semi-aggressive. R2F: prime.
Revizer: wins, 11/20 (1 KO, 10 OS)
Balro: wins, 9/20 (All KO)
MSF-H Balro Balro W145R2F win rate: 45%

Not great. Not awful, but below average for me.

Vs. Stamina:

Spoiler (Click to View)

MSF-H Wyvang Wyvang BD145RDF vs. Duo Cancer SA165 [Normal] EWD
Top Wyvang: aggressive mold, slightly worn. Bottom Wyvang: Calm mold, slightly worn. RDF evenly worn; aggressive. cleaned every round. Wyvang launched first on all launches.
Wyvang: wins, 15/20 (13 KO, 2 OS)
Cancer: wins, 5/20 (All OS)
MSF-H Wyvang Wyvang BD145RDF win rate: 75%

The only out-spins that happened were brought about by multiple wall-saves. As you can see, Wyvang still managed to take two of them by slugging Cancer across the stadium into the wall enough times to take it out.

MSF-H Wyvang Wyvang BD145RDF vs. Duo Cancer 230TB
Top Wyvang: aggressive mold, slightly worn. Bottom Wyvang: Calm mold, slightly worn. RDF evenly worn; aggressive. cleaned every round. Wyvang launched first on all launches.
Wyvang: wins, 10/10 (All KO)
Cancer: wins, 0/10
MSF-H Wyvang Wyvang BD145RDF win rate: 100%

MSF-H Wyvang Wyvang BD145RDF vs. Revizer Dragooon SA165 [Normal] EWD
Top Wyvang: aggressive mold, slightly worn. Bottom Wyvang: Calm mold, slightly worn. RDF evenly worn; aggressive. cleaned every round. Wyvang launched first on all launches.
Wyvang: wins, 10/10 (6 KO, 4 OS)
Dragooon: wins, 0/10
MSF-H Wyvang Wyvang BD145RDF win rate: 100%

This is one of the places where RDF visibly tops RSF in a really advantageous way. RSF has some trouble KOing Dragooon Stamina customs, but the biggest difference is that RDF has the capacity to OS them consistently.

Vs. Defense:

Spoiler (Click to View)

MSF-H Wyvang Wyvang BD145RDF vs. MSF-H Revizer Revizer BD145RDF
Top Wyvang: aggressive mold, slightly worn. Bottom Wyvang: Calm mold, slightly worn. Wyvang RDF evenly worn; aggressive. cleaned every round. Revizer RDF: slightly rounded; semi-aggressive. Revizer launched first on all launches.
Wyvang: wins, 9/10 (7 KO, 2 OS)
Revizer: wins, 1/10 (1 OS)
MSF-H Wyvang Wyvang BD145RDF win rate: 90%

Now, I have to point out that Revizer was launched first every round here. I was going for the KO, so it seemed appropriate, but things likely won't go this great if both customs are launched simultaneously.

MSF-H Wyvang Wyvang BD145RDF vs. MSF-H Revizer Genbull E230 [Boost] RB
Top Wyvang: aggressive mold, heavily worn. Bottom Wyvang: Calm mold, heavily worn. RDF slightly rounded; semi-aggressive. cleaned every round. RB worn; aggressive.
Wyvang: wins, 10/20 (All KO)
Genbull: wins, 10/20 (1 KO, 9 OS)
MSF-H Wyvang Wyvang BD145RDF win rate: 50%

OK, this test is a little iffy, so I wouldn't put too much stock in it. The Wyvangs I used were pretty worn (I did this set a couple days later, after I'd used the Wyvangs at Return of the Plastics and smashed my good RDF), and the RDF wasn't evenly worn. Nevertheless, Wyvang still pulled off a 50% win rate, which is pretty impressive, even relative to most competitive Attack types.

Vs. Attack:

Spoiler (Click to View)

MSF-H Wyvang Wyvang BD145RDF vs. MSF-H Balro Balro W145R2F
Top Wyvang: aggressive mold, mildly worn. Bottom Wyvang: Calm mold, mildly worn. RDF evenly worn; aggressive. cleaned every round. R2F: prime.
Wyvang: wins, 8/15 (4 KO, 4 OS)
Balro: wins, 7/15 (5 KO, 2 OS)
MSF-H Wyvang Wyvang BD145RDF win rate: 53.3%

Lots and lots of loud clanging, flying colors, and jumping Beyblades. Such a chaotic matchup, I feel like the numbers for this one could differ randomly to some extent.

I just had to stop at 15 guys. Seeing flakes of metal landing in the bottom of a BB-10 stadium is just disturbing (like, we're talking actual flakes of metal - small and paper-thin, but still metal nonetheless).

Not tons of testing, but you guys understand how expensive Wyvangs and RDFs are, right?

Counters:

Spoiler (Click to View)

Nothing really that reliable yet. The best option I'd advise would be MSF-H Revizer Genbull/Killerken E230 [Boost] RSF/RB. Testing/suggestions for possible counters would be awesome if you guys could think of some things that might work.

Overall, I love this thing! Sends 80% of the meta to kingdom come, and slugs the rest so hard they come back barely spinning. Aggressive approach, but much more versatile and a lot less risky than a conventional Attack Beyblade. My kind of combo!

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*The one thing it does have trouble with is MSF-H (Revizer/Genbull) (Revizer/Genbull) BD145RDF. At that point, you do have a 3-4 gram weight advantage, so launching as aggressively as possible and going for the KO is probably the best course of action, but it's still a pretty close contest, and at that point an OS is pretty much a complete toss-up. It's definitely far from hopeless, though, and RDF is really the only Bottom you have to worry too much about (RB can put up a fight, but CS stands no chance of even staying in the stadium, and RSF is pretty easy to take down as well).

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I know you were probably waiting for someone to ask this, but can you test against MSF-L Genbull Dragooon F230GCF?

And don't you own 8 Wyvang's...?

I remember you saying before that RDF wouldn't work on MSF-H Wyvang Wyvang BD145RSF, why has it changed now?

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6 God is watching and I hope you're prepared to face him

Finally another awesome TBD dubbed testing thread! Awesome as always.

Anyways the tests are pretty awesome. I do think it's not the best that people will use to KO Defense types, but it can be used at times (referring to Time). Can you test it against Dragooon and Duo F230?

Beaten by the ninja...

I'm happy to see this combo get a thread after the event on Saturday. I would love to test this, but I only have 1 Wyvang. Could you test it against a variation of Dragooon F230, possibly with a second person? The only reason I requested that is because the mixed results on Saturday. I beat MSF-H Wyvang^2 BD145 RDF twice with Killerken Dragooon F230 GCF, but the three other times you played against someone using Dragooon F230 with this combo you won (and the matches weren't even close). Hope we can get some other members on this combo!

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I know you were probably waiting for someone to ask this, but can you test against MSF-L Genbull Dragooon F230GCF?

And don't you own 8 Wyvang's...?

I remember you saying before that RDF wouldn't work on MSF-H Wyvang Wyvang BD145RSF, why has it changed now?

it can beat f230 gcf i battle him with it and i lost

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This thing usually achieves around 60-70% on Dragooon F230, although I haven't had time to test that formally yet. I can get those done now, actually (hope you guys don't mind me using some worn-ish Wyvangs - it's more a question of whether Wyvang gets a clear shot, so it shouldn't skew the results that much, but still).

I own 8, yes, but 4 of them have been rendered totally useless, 2 are on the verge of dying, and I'm saving the other two for competition or backup in case I can't get replacements.

lord: Haha, almost wrote RagerBlade. XD Read the whole "The Concept" section.

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you beat my dragoon f230 with it .

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I know you were probably waiting for someone to ask this, but can you test against MSF-L Genbull Dragooon F230GCF?

And don't you own 8 Wyvang's...?

I remember you saying before that RDF wouldn't work on MSF-H Wyvang Wyvang BD145RSF, why has it changed now?

it can beat f230 gcf i battle him with it and i lost

Yeah, but as TD mentioned, he was able to defeat it. (Maybe you should ask TD how he launched to defeat it)

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6 God is watching and I hope you're prepared to face him

I saw this combo coming. Called it homie.

It's good to see you making a combo thread though .
Tests against Reviser Dragooon SA165/BD145RDF please. I'll post my opinion and stuff when I get more time to read the whole thread.

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Signature credit to Leet.o

Spoiler (Click to View)

Threads you should read:

Pony King ? God, can't believe I typed this. I have to put my keyboard in the dishwasher now...

dude are you a gangster

LOL did you asked Midnight to take that pic?

When a monochrome picture is posted on WBO, it doesn't mean that it's always from Midnight.

I wouldn't trust someone with that many Cancer faces.

Well damn.

@[The Supreme One] Soul Baez V145AS

There's nothing else really to do or say except wait for the Superbowl, but I'm only here so I don't get fined.



Time. *gets up and leaves*

We won't have tournaments in the winter. Cause we are not one of those Canadian people where they just go outside like nothing happened to their hands.

i like my coffee like i like my men B)



i don't like coffee

I never have.

*Ginga*.. you're drunk bro... go home.. : )

Tbh SGMS & BDMS are kinda worthless.
MSUV is a far better spent investment; DGMF is even better IMO.

Um what? You're just saying that because you're a dragoon fanboy...

Why would I be suspended????

HMS summarised:




Anything not Tornado Type S:  Wolborg will leave you #rekt




Otherwise:  Go crazy with Ultimate Grip Flat 




For something less cookie-cutter:  Jiraiya sure is sexy

Is Wolborg 2 useless for competitive play?

Extremely useless. 
Now, if you come upon one I'll just PM you my address so you can throw it away. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

I wasn't looking for Beyblade Underwear, I swear

Well, Thunder Dome beat it twice, but both times the final score was 2/3, and there were multiple wall saves involved. I believe the other 3 matches were 3/0, 3/1, and 3/1, so the total record between this custom and Dragooon F230 was 8/5, which is roughly 62% in favor of Wyvang.

OK, so I tried some testing, and I'm just getting dozens of wall saves, and I can see my Wyvang visibly changing shape.

Do you think you guys could test yourselves? My RDF is getting too short, and my Wyvang isn't working great anymore. :\

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he used killerken i use genbull

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This combo is known, but nice work. I like your tests. what about Revizer Dragooon BD145 RDF

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I am an odd person sometimes, here's why (Click to View)

that's wierd? there's was thread for this until now? that's odd

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[Image: 0268.gif]

Yes there has been one: http://worldbeyblade.org/Thread-MSF-H-Wy...g-BD145RSF

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6 God is watching and I hope you're prepared to face him

Wait, you guys know it's different right? He's using RDF on this, not RSF.

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Wait, you guys know it's different right? He's using RDF on this, not RSF.

Yeah I know. Ocean said this combo is already known, and Ultimate Blaze didn't know there was one similair.

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6 God is watching and I hope you're prepared to face him

Wait, this was "already known?"

Where? I'm pretty sure this is the first time this custom has been tested.

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A few people have used it in tournament play, I have the synchrome switched but have been a long time user.
GG TBD

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Veteran, just getting back into the sway of things

Hi nice thread here, I'm surprised no-one discovered this before!
And discussing the combo:
1. We now know that the two molds of Wyvang (aggressive and passive) can affect recoil and smash capability. And thus I ask, have you actually gone through the trouble of experimenting with the [four] different combinations of molds [formally or informally] and come to the conclusion that Top=Aggressive Bottom=Passive is the best?
2. Is this combo aggressive enough to break the stall of tornado stallers, specifically MSF-L Balro^2 BD145MF, MF-L Phantom Cygnus 85MF and Genbull Dragooon T125GCF (if it's top tier)?
3. I suppose left-spin top-tier attack would be even in terms of winrate against this combo?

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Please PM me if you have extensively tested Begirados, Pegasis and Balro on identical setups for side-on smash!!!

Making a thread for a new beyblade customisation? PM me and I'll happily help with the bey-physics explanations and stuff like that!

Homepage! (Babbleland)
Uploads (video guides/representations of my babblesense)

My bey history (Click to View)

Earth ___ 135SD/WD (2011-2013)(My Earth is broken :()
Death ___ Bearing Drive (2012-2014)
Death ___ SA165(Attack)SWD
Gryph Balro BD145R2F (Previously temporarily SA165WSF)

Hi nice thread here, I'm surprised no one discovered this before!
And discussing the combo:
1. We now know that the two molds of Wyvang (aggressive and passive) can affect recoil and smash capability. And thus I ask, have you actually gone through the trouble of experimenting with the [four] different combinations of molds [formally or informally] and come to the conclusion that Top=Aggressive Bottom=Passive is the best?
2. Is this combo aggressive enough to break the stall of tornado stallers, specifically MSF-L Balro^2 BD145MF, MF-L Phantom Cygnus 85MF and Genbull Dragooon T125GCF (if it's top tier)?
3. I suppose left-spin top-tier attack would be even in terms of winrate against this combo?

People have known about this combo for a while now though no one besides TBD has tested all that much. How did you know about the molds? It's never been proven right?
This thing would beat L spin attack, it has RDF and RDF has LAD.

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I am an odd person sometimes, here's why (Click to View)

A few people have used it in tournament play...

Who?? I had no idea. Do you know what it played/won/lost against?

... I have the synchrome switched but have been a long time user.

Well... if the Synchrom is different, then it's not really the same. MSF-H BD145RDF is a traditional setup that most everyone uses. What makes this custom different is Wyvang^2.

GG TBD

Thanks.

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You let my little cousin use this at the tournament in Indiana TBD when he beat Shining Dog MS with it XD.

I also beat your dad when he used it. Then again, Wyvang Dragooon SA165R2F doesn't have a problem against any right spin defense type, haha.

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still posi

Well yah. I let him use it with RDF substituted because I figured RSF was too risky with all the Dragooon SGMS was using.

I knew it was good at the time, but I didn't know it was this good. I still thought RSF was safer as far as handling same-spin combinations went.

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RDF has been my go to even against same spin since I got it. Then again, I guess another big factor is that my RSF is so hard to get aggro anymore. Even then, I can get RDF plenty aggro enough when I need it or not so it really is the better choice for this set up.

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still posi

Well yes, RDF is definitely the better option for this custom, but due to some apparently faulty testing, I didn't know that at the time.

Has anyone else used this during a tournament? Because I'd really really like to see the post in winning combinations, in case there's any mention of how it did in the tournament.

I've searched pretty hard and I can't seem to find anything, but perhaps I'm looking in all the wrong places.

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|Click here for the next tournament in North Carolina! |

Well yes, RDF is definitely the better option for this custom, but due to some apparently faulty testing, I didn't know that at the time.

Has anyone else used this during a tournament? Because I'd really really like to see the post in winning combinations, in case there's any mention of how it did in the tournament.

I've searched pretty hard and I can't seem to find anything, but perhaps I'm looking in all the wrong places.

I have used this in a few different tournaments. Ethan H and Snoop Dog MS i think have also. One of the tournaments i used it in was Ethan H's tournament in Febuar and the winning combinations weren't ever posted.